hey there i have to do a job on a front porch, the tiles are cracking due to stress from freze/thaw as the previous installer did not leave expansion room around the perimiter and even the stone on the house and retaining wall are actually flaking due to the pressure of being locked in as he grouted what should of been a perimiter expansion joint, now tiles are coming loose and the grout is mostly all cracked and coming out. tiles are easily removed and there is no thinset on the back of the tiles plus there is about 1cm of really sandy gritty yellowish/beige looking mortar of some sort (almost looks like playsand). there is visible holes around the grout around the perimeter where it meets the brick and im almost certain there is an unnaceptable slope as it is visible to the naked eye in some places.

I have to jackhammer or chisel off the existing tiles and then do something about the sludgey cement remaining, once its all off im sure il have to let it dry for some time (any suggestions) before i can install a new system.

As for the system, what should i do, im looking for suggestions here it would be a big help.

system 1 - fix the slope as you see in the "exterior quartzite
job" located on the front page of this website. Then basicly follow the same routine as shown in the pictures mentioned above. use the ditra with the kerdi mat and exterior caulk at the edges/perimiters. seal grout afterwards (i will be using porcelain i assume)

System 2

use what mapei recomends for exterior

i think 2 summers ago they had me using kerabond mixed with keralastic additive., that stuff is a pain to use
the installations are still going strong though and i havent had any problems with them.

What do you guys like to use outdoors , im in canada <ontario) so we have -30 in the winter to +30 in the summer as well as cool mornings and extremely hot middays so temps can fluxuate alot.,

1 more thing i also want to use my JAMB SAW and use a tile blade on it and "undercut" all the brick and stone around the perimiter where the tile will meet brick. this will hopefully imporove the look as brick and eneven stone walls are hard to cut around and it still has to be caulked after so i think hiding it under a quarter inch or so would be nice.please respond i would really apreciate the advice.
thanks steve.

ps its about 250 sq feet how much would you guys charge for demo prep and install labour.
thanks. steve

Hi Steven
The Kerabond / Keralastic is pretty good stuff, but because of its high latex content it would need a couple weeks to properly cure (over Ditra) in dry conditions.
Best thing to do after you demolish the existing bed and tiles is to make sure you have a required slope which might require you to build a mortar bed over the slab. Use latex additive for your mud if you do.
Ditra is a good choice for membrane over the mud bed.
Drip edges are also important on the outer edges of the deck. That can be an extended tile, but best to cover the face of the mud-bed which can be accomplished with a drip edge.

As far as pricing ... Depends how long of a job it is, the difficulty in removal and disposal as well as labour expense of anyone working for you. Take each phase of the project and price it separately on paper and then add in what you need to make in order to make this a good living. If you end up with $175 in your pocket ater a day's work or if you end up with $500, is up to you and your customer.
Also ... a day can end at 2pm or 7pm. If it ends at 2pm there's not much else you can do with the rest of the day except maybe make a trip to the dump ... so no matter what, you've eaten up a day.

Pricing is a very personal thing for each individual and depends a lot on what you consider to be a fair days wage for your services. You decide how long a complete demolishion would take for you and your crew, which would also include setting up drop sheets and dust barriers etc. The time and expence of transporting and dumping at a local waste site. Figure 1 full day for 2 or 3 people. A fair estimate would be between $750.00 and $900.00 just for the demolishion alone.
Building a mortar bed starts at about $7 per sq ft. (more with admix) and then the cost of Ditra and extra mortar. Installing porcelain or high end ceramic should start at $4.25 psf.

Divide the job up into phases Steven and then calculate each phase sepately as an expense .... then add what you need to make to make both you and the Tax people happy.

hey there Harry! thanks for the quick response.
i have submitted my quote to the tile store and they are going to get back to me. I phoned home depot and got a rough quote over the phone. they said exterior tile is 4.35 a square foot to install and a "ballpark" estimate of 3.00 a sq ft for removal. I was speaking to the guy in the flooring dept and he didnt sound like he knew 100% about what we were talking about, i heard they give a decent install rate foir the actual tile but SOAK you when it comes to the demo, prep, etc.

I wanted to try to be somewhat competitive so i priced it at 4.25 a square foot and 4.00 a square foot for demo and basic prep.

basicly $8.25 x 250square feet.
thats labour <they will pay for their mortar etc.>

that price does not include me having to build a better slope.
once it's stripped and the old mortar removed il be able to get a better idea weather or not a better slope is needed
i think we'l be able to get away with simply stripping it down to the original concrete and installing the tile, but maybe il just do a bit of patching near the house/wall area so the water will not get beetween the tile and brick exterior wall. i will have to silicone the perimiter with exterior silicone and i was wondering if i should give the customer the option of having me "undercut" the brick and stone with my jambsaw. it would be alot of work and i was told that doing this can create a small space for water to get in, i was told to silicone inside the "undercutted stone , to the tile can be "tucked " under the brick, avoiding the messy "tile meeting natural stone" look.
you know what i mean harry they were discussing it at the schluter seminar we went to, would i silicone the 1/8" gap that will be left beeween the brick and the tile or what?
heres a basic drawing showing where i plan on siliconing, but like i said i think i should do a "pre siliconing" as im installing the tiles. to take care of the voids or whatever and then another one before and/or possibly after grouting, i dont want that "ugly as sin" caulking meets brick or stone look. the last bead will be less than a 1/4 inch and it will go under the brick and the brick will stay clean that way.

any suggestions or tips /tricks?
plus how much would you tack on if they wanted that done, say minimum 200$ at least,
the whole job is quoted at about 2026.00 and it will take a week at the most to do,
thanks a million
Steve
[img]http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2928836&id=675170505[/img]

I don't know Steve ... silicone would sure do the trick but maybe apply it first into the undercut so that it doesn't become messy on the stone. Sounds like a good plan the way you describe it.
$200 would be the minimum if it was a 3 hour job ... but you'd probably be safe at $300. Ask them if they feel that would be a fair price. There'a a lot of work with the saw, and then you'll probably spend over an hour or more just chiseling out the stone to accomodate the tile.

Steve ... make sure you get some photos into the tile contest!