I bought enough 12 x12 slate over the summer to do my kitchen, hall, 2 hall closets, 2 bath floors, 1 walk in shower, 1 tub surround, entry by front door, and living room. I do not have the time so decided to call a professional. I also do not want to waste money learning how to float lathe. My project measures up at 600 sq. ft. for the flooring, and 200 sq. ft. on the walls/ceiling for showers. The tile setter bid it at $4585 to come in and set all the tile, and provide everthing but the tile, including wire lathe/morter underlayment, 1 shower pan for the master, whatever green board or other for showers, grout, plus that includes sealing all of it with a two step process, step one color enhancer, step two gloss. I said that was too much, I could not afford that, so he dropped it down to $4000 even right off the bat. Plus he said he'd do a 4" slate toe kick around all my new kitchen cabinets. He is a friend of my moms and 3rd generation setter, is this a good price or should I save my hard earned cash and do it myself??!

He also suggested I could step up to a 16 x 16 slate for the flooring cause it looks alot nicer, then do the shower walls with the 12 x 12. $2 a sq ft for the 16 x 16, I'm thinking seriously about paying the extra $1600, so $5600 out the door, get it done right the first time, and sell all the 12 x 12 I have. Help!

Well here's the red flags I see:
Float wire lathe /mortar underlayment (scratch coat & wire lathe) = garbage
Greenboard for the shower = garbage
With the above installation specs that have been proposed, I highly doubt the shower pan will be done right.

Those prices are way too cheap for the scope of work and the materials proposed.

You will be getting what you pay for on this job.

You said you want it done right the first time. I'm sad to say your starting off on the wrong foot already.

Browse thru the articles on the web site to educate yourself on the right installation methods.

The last stone job I did I charged almost $6 a square foot, this was with a proper underlayment, and I work relatively cheap compared to some other markets.

He should have told you that you'll need a double layer of ply on the floor if you don't already have it, and as RC said, some type of underlayment besides scratch coat.....anything but scratch coat.

And I don't bid showers by the square foot, but I wouldn't even talk to someone about doing a natural stone shower for less than $2800.00, and that would be the basic minimum. A shower with 200 sf of stone would be significantly more. None of those prices would include sealing it.

When installing a tile shower, everything has to be done correctly from the start, or it most likely will require a complete tear out and re-do, which is more expensive than doing it right the first time. The same goes for installing it on the floor, there's really no way to "fix" an entire installation that's was done wrong from the beginning.

I agree with RC, that's very cheap, and it probably won't work.

Now you have 3 pro's in agreement. The price you are getting is low by about a grand, and the materials suggested inadequate. 4 grand is about right for the tile setting only without any prep work.

Check with the guy if he intends to do a mortar bed which is a 3/4 inch layer of mortar reinforced with wire mesh and a good way to prep for tile, or a scratch coat, whish is a thin layer of mortar over wire mesh, which is garbage.

Ok, I was up pretty late last night reading and learning. When I first met with him, he said the lathe/mud underlayment is thin, like an 1/8 on an inch. Guess that's a scratch coat, right? I know the pros recommend more plywood and Ditra. So I called him. Green board comment was my mistake, he'll be using cement board. He said his work is guaranteed, said he's never had a problem with lathe/mud. Said if it were his house, he wouldn't put down more plywood and the floor will be strong. His dad did the floors and showers at my moms place, the ceramic tile on lathe/mud in the kitchen/bath/hall is fine and it's been 4.5 years. So I don't know what I'm going to do. His dad and grandfather are tile setters so he's been doing this since he was a child. Guess everyone is saying no to the scratch coat . . . my floor is 2 x 8's, 16" o.c., spanning 12' 6" on either side on the beam/wall in the basement. 23/32" plywood. House built in '84. The master shower is a walk in that measures 8' high and 5' x 3', so he'll be doing the ceiling, entry step, and corner shelf. Said we could do a diagonal pattern or whatever I wanted.

Oh yeah, that price includes sealing it all with 2 step sealer. He said step one brings out the color, and two is the clear. Told me sealer is $150 a gallon.

Your floor structure doesn't even meet the minimum requirements for a regular tile installation let alone natural stone.

I wish I had a dollar for every so called pro that says "they being doing it that way for 20 years and never had a problem"
Problem is they haven't learned anything in 20 years.

If you get a written warranty for this installation then go for it.
I think its obvious that you've had enough people tell you the proposed installation methods are just plain wrong.

Good Luck

DMC, to give you an idea of the deflection ratings involved: Ceramic tile requires L/360, natural stone requires L/720, or half the deflection allowed vs. ceramic. 2x8's spanning 12'6" is roughly L/270, so not even close. This says nothing of the deflection between the joists, which is why a double layer of ply is necessary. (I'm assuming the joists are 16" O.C.?)

Combine all the above problems with the inadequate method of installation (scratch coat) and you've got a recipe for a complete tear-out and re-do. Sorry.

DMC,

Add me to the thumbs down list. I had to laugh at your comment that the original price he gave you was too much. As others here and at JB's have told you by asking..."Too much? You gotta be kidding?"

That price was probably half of what is really should have been. Later we all learned that these guys are going to do the job ALL WRONG. The price is still to cheap, but it is more understandable.

Yikes, scratch coat floors and green board showers. And natural stone over a single subfloor and a deflection rating of under L300 no less. These guys are hacks!

Jaz

Well it sounds like everone is knowledgable, except me and my tile guy, thanks for all the info! We'll jeez, what do I do now hardwood? It is not practical at all to put more plywood down, my prehung doors would clear, not to mention the cost, I would have to ply 1000 sq. ft. to keep the carpet at the same elevation. Didn't mean to insult anyones profession with the price, guess it's going to be more work than I anticipated. Just running low on cash after kitchen cabinets, still have to do window, door, siding, etc.

Adding plywood is one way. Doors are made to be cut to clear new floors or even thick carpet. Nothing new to cut doors. It is almost unreasonable to install different types of flooring in a house and expect them to be the same level. You want them the same? Install the same flooring everywhere.

But don't dis pare. They make carpet shims for just this purpose. It's done thousands of times a day. http://images.google.com/images?q=carpet...F-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Jaz