Just wondering how everyone out there is coping. I unfortunately moved to a new town less than a year ago and don't have a big client base here. My business has gone from 7 days a week to 7 days a month in a big hurry.

It's been pretty slow the past few months. I've used what little bit of money I made to get my business completely out of debt. Tough on my wallet, but I sleep better at night.

Business is starting to pick up right now, have few large projects to work on for the next month or so. Hope it's not just a fluke.

I'm doing jobs I would never have done in the past..2-3 hr one way travel...but hey, you do what you gotta do I guess.

Hi there guys I am new to this forum never posted before. I have a question for pistolpete because I know he used to work in van city. I am moving there in a week how is it to work in van city.

sorry, I've been away from the forum for a while. We had twins and one of them needed heart surgery. It's been a pretty crazy summer and fall. Working in Vancouver is like anywhere else. If you are good there is no shortage of work. The trouble with the city is spending an hour or two in traffic every day and the insane housing costs. If you are making less than $50/hour you will not make it financially.

One piece of advice I'd give you is watch your ass when it comes to getting paid. Never install tile that you paid for personally until at least your materials are fully paid for. Certain nationalities of builders seem to think that business is like poker and will screw you if they can. I can discuss this via private PM if you want.

Hi Pete
Congratulations on having twins! I hope your little one has a speedy recovery.

Hi all. I'm new here in the forums. Just curious how everyone is fairing with the economy. How's your outlook for the new year? In Edmonton, a few fly-by-night operations and individuals. But I guess they are around in the good times too, but less visible.

I think that I ended up pretty lucky. All in all I missed about 5 days of work last year. I ended up with several large commercial jobs that filled in about 3 moths of work, so that the shortage of residential work didn't hurt. Now things seem to be picking back up to the normal levels.

Sounds like good news Pete. I do only residential so it can get slow around Christmas and the New Year (as per usual). Do you do work for a single general contractor (commercial)?

I sub contract for a flooring store and have been really happy with that. The pay is good and I have very few of the hassles that generally go with being a self employed contractor. They do most of the commercial flooring in town, but being a small town, there just isn't a large amount of those jobs around.

Tired of loosing jobs to the $1.50 to $2.50 sf guys - guys with no business licence, no insurance, no WCB, etc, etc. Perhaps it is high time for a national training requirement for qualified installers. Wondering what others think and how we can make it a reality.

I've been saying that for years.

That would be ideal, however the reality of it is, its not going to happen. I know, never say never but the truth of the matter is it has to be initiated on a government level.
There's no incentive to make a tile setter licensed. Anything to do with tile setting is not part of any building departments code requirements to meet the health and safety of new home or renovation construction. Yes, there is a very small code application with regards to tile in the Ontario Building Code, but its not enough to create a whole new apprenticeship and licensing program at a government level.

I'm a licensed carpenter by trade and never once has anyone ever asked for my credentials to construct an entire home or do renovations.

Most tile setting is done where there is no permit required for a job so why would someone need to be licensed for that type of work.

Too bad the system is not like that of German standards where you don't even set tile for anyone on your own till your apprenticeship is done and you have passed the final exams.

Yes, our industry is flawed and unfortunately even if there were licensing requirements the same old problem of low ball pricing and substandard work will always be there. Actually even more so.

That's right Randall ... also, the onus is on the consumer to find qualified tradespeople ... licence or no licence.
The TTMAC (in Canada) is an organization which regulates some of the industry standards, but no one is forced to comply.
Each product requires a certain material and installation process for the warranty to be honoured. You would think consumers or retailers would use better tradespeople for their installations, even for that reason alone.
Anyone with a the tools and a business card can claim they are a qualified tilesetter.

Maybe we can get Mike Holmes on this band wagon. He might have some political connections to make changes. I here ya, Randall. But wouldn't it at least level the playing field? I know having a licence doesn't mean corners wouldn't get cut or substandard work won't occur. At least there should be some minimum requirement for training. Perhaps then it would weed out the fly by night guys and allow the legitimate business people to earn a living.
I see industry training as a plus for everyone. It could only help this industry.

Holmes is on the band wagon. His approach is more along the line of educating the consumer to pick a reputable contractor. Unfortunately his constant berating against contractors to consumers makes us all look bad in the eyes of the client.

Level the playing field, maybe. You would then have to make carpet, hardwood and vinyl installers legit also. And we all know thats not going to happen. Where do you draw the line?
Personally, I think any trade involved with constructing or renovating a home should be qualified. I wish I had the answer on how to make that happen.

Funding and interest is not there to create programs at a college level for this type of work. As a professional in this business you need to stay a notch above the hacks by self education. Stay on top of the latest trends or products by attending trade shows, seminars, product demos etc.

....or just come here every day.

Indeed, this site is fantastic. There is a wealth of knowledge on both Harry's site and John's site. I would even pay to use the information on here.
Hardwood installers should probably be licenced too ... came across a hardwood install done by painters a few months back ... hardwood was installed in the same direction as the floor joists with a 5/8 subfloor ... looking across the floor it looked like water waves ... felt like it too when walked across ... the poor home owner paid $3 SF for the install, not to mention the cost of the hardwood. It just urks me when I see things like that.

You can start sending your cheques

My cheques have such a high rubber content in them right now RC, I could use them as a pan liner.

Hi All,

A little history:
I have been here and looking around for some time now--I have been tile setting now part time for about 8 years. I am familiar with Schluter and have done quite a few showers, backsplashes, floors etc. I have done my own shower pans--always waterproof with kerdi--though just did my first hybrid thanks to the forum.

I am focusing on tile more these days because there is a ton of carpenters here but only a few doing tile--and I haven't always been impressed with the work.


My question is about the internet--how many have websites and do you feel that it is worth it? What percentage of your work do you feels comes from your websites?

Thanks

Dale

I've had a website for a few years now, although I just upgraded to a much better site a couple of years ago. While I can't say that it's brought me a large amount of business, it has certainly paid for itself.

As my website grows, so does the number of visits to it. I'm hopeful that this will bring more business as time goes on.

If you're interested, I can connect you with the person that does my website. He's very knowledgeable and keeps my site up to date with my latest jobs so that it doesn't go "dormant". An attractive and well put-together site can certainly be an asset to your business.

I have relied exclusively on referrals. I don't even have a business card, except for my phone # on pieces of juniper wood. Even with the shaky economy in a fairly small town I have managed to work more than full time. I think that the secret to my success is that I do top quality work all the time, but I also go out of my way to provide really good customer service. I always compliment my clients on aspects of their house, act cheerful even when I don't feel like it, clean up, show up on time, etc. etc. In my opinion a lot of guys don't realize that construction is a customer service industry.

Anyway, I am rambling on. My point is why spend money on advertising, web sites, fancy logos and all that, when you can have all the work you need just by being the best tile setter around. Maybe if i wanted to expand my business and employ some people, but I've been there and it's not worth the sleepless nights.

Thanks guys for the points of view--given me a few things to ponder.

What Pistolpete says about reputation and customer service is very true. I am a believer in a high level of customer service and as a result find myself developing relationships with my customers that other contractors have noticed and commented on.

What makes it tough around here (South Central Ontario) is that there have been a lot of automotive based shut downs and lay-offs in recent years. What happens then is you get a lot of guys that helped their buddy put in his kitchen floor so he figures he can be a tile setter (or drywaller, or carpenter, etc.). Some guys are working on the weekends for beer money. I find that for some people the low bid gets the job and when you're bidding against a Yabba-Dabba-Doer who's ready to work for next to nothing it's tough. When you have a customer that wants the job done right and is ready to pay what it's worth you consider yourself fortunate and hope that the work that you do and the service that you extend the customer will speak volumes to that customer and their friends.

I have got a number of hits from internet advertising, but quite often they're inquiries like "How much do you charge to install tile?" or "How much to you charge for a Backsplash?". Quite often they're looking for the lowest price. When they start asking about your experience or if you're insured, then you know there's a better chance of them being serious.

By the way, Dale W, where on Manitoulin Island are you. I lived on the Island for some tile when I was younger.

I agree that customer service is key. Problem I am having is differentiating myself from the "handy man" I mean why pay "top $ "to a tile setter when the weekend worker will do it for peanuts. J&D we have had striking INCO workers doing all kinds of jobs here when they weren't over in Sudbury fighting for their rights to make a good income. I find the problem is that most people don't notice all the small details. They have been looking at a floor that needs replacing for some time--once the tile is down it looks great--it is only some time later--say a month that they start to notice the toe catcher here and the misaligned grout lines there--and if ok is the norm--then proper layouts don't even get noticed--" oh there doesn't need to be a sliver near one wall" I mean it's common here to have tile placed down over single layer plywood or direct to concrete in a basement. I am just a little frustrated that someone with experience and attention to detail is having a hard time finding work consistently. Thought the internet might help but was leaning against it. I will continue to do the best work that I can--continue to learn more and better my skills and be confident that it will lead to more and better work.

OH yeah J&D I live Providence Bay--beautiful spot to live and worth all the ups and downs.

I feel for you, Dale W. I realize that you don't really have the largest customer base to draw from, and when you have people hiring the low-ballers simply because of price it makes it even harder. Just try to remain positive and think of all the money you will make doing repairs in the future.

I used to live in Manitowaning, by the way.

Hey Pal! How ya doing?

From one flooring contractor to another...
I know exactly what you mean. We are going through the same thing here in Ontario. Just BRUTAL !
You were very kind in the words you used. Mine are a little different, but frustration is the same.
I even went so far as to post an ad on Kijiji.

http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-services-skilled-trades-ATTN-TILE-INSTALLERS-W0QQAdIdZ312983778

These guys are just killing the market.
This is skilled not to mention very hard work.
I almost feel like getting out of the business myself.
It used to be residential was the way to go in terms of making a decent buck.
I am beginning to believe that commercial is the only forum you want to be in. The only downside to this, is if you are a craftsman there is no flavour to be had. But invoices are better than none at all.

Good luck with your endeavours.

INLINE FLOORING