I've been doing research online for a shower rebuild project for about 2 months and I always seem to come back to this site. Thank you so much for all the great resources that are available here! On to my question.

Whoever built the walk-in shower in my house did a horrible job. I just got done tearing it apart and from the looks of it, its been leaking from the get-go. The liner they installed only went up about 2 inches. It didn't even come up flush with the top of the finish bed, and they didn't even think about taking it over the curb. The tiles on the curb were installed directly to the 2x6's that it was made from! I need to install a new liner and do the curb correctly and I think that will take care of my problems. My question is should I go ahead and rip out the pre-slope mortar bed and start from scratch, or can I keep the existing pre-slope and just put a proper liner in place and put my finish bed on top?

Here are some pictures:

Before the rip-out


Curb with no liner!!!


Showing the existing liner.


Some of the finish layer removed.

If the preslope is done correctly, it can be left in place. Basically it needs to slope from the wall to the drain at 1/4" per foot, and be at about the same level or slightly higher (maybe 1/8" or less) than the drain flange. You also need to make sure it's not cracked and breaking away at it's thinnest point around the drain. Make sure it's dried out before you start. Also make sure the weep holes on the drain aren't plugged with concrete.

Having said that, it's probably not going to be a big problem to take it out and start over. That way you know it's all done correctly.

If you need someone to take a look at it for your or some face-to-face advice, I'm only about 30 miles away from you.

Thanks for your reply Kman. I've been gone on spring break, but I got back yesterday, and today I decided to cut the old liner out so I could have a good look at the preslope. I don't know why I expected any part of this to be done correctly. As you can see by the pic below, it has dips, and look at the bubble! It slopes away from the drain in places!



So it looks like I'll be tearing out the preslope as well. I'm thinking about doing away with the glass anyways and building a tiled wall with glass stone inlays similar to Harry's NuHeat shower: http://www.ontariotile.com/heated-showers.html. I've noticed that on most of the pictures on harry's site and these forums there are no shower doors installed. Do you guys install the doors or does someone else?

I never install the doors, don't really have time. So many of them have to be custom cut, and to be honest most people that spend a lot of money on a tile shower are more than willing to pay the extra for a nice door, as opposed to a one-size-fits-all door you can get from Lowe's.

Sorry about the pre-slope, but at least this way you'll know it's done right from the beginning. Since you're back to square one, this would be a good opportunity for you to install a Kerdi shower if you're so inclined.

Hi

we do install doors on our projects, so if you have any specific questions feel free to let me know.

You're going to rip out the entire shower and start over right? Were you planning a different remedy?

Jaz

If you decide to do a Kerdi shower (that's all I do now) I can tell you where you can get all you need locally or online.

I was thinking of just ripping out the top layer, leaving the preslope and doing the liner and finish bed correctly. But after looking at the preslope, my decision was made. Its all torn out. Including the sink and cabinet that was next to the shower:




Here is the mold damage that was under the sink cabinet:

If I go with a Kerdi, how far up the wall do I need to take the Kerdi liner. Right now I've only got about 3 feet of tile removed. Would I have to remove all of it and take the Kerdi liner all the way up?

You could stop anywhere you want, but if the rest of the shower is built improperly, you'll still have problems.

If that's Hardibacker on the wall behind the tile, it should have a vapor barrier between it and the framing. Moisture will penetrate the Hardibacker and eventually get into the framing, thus the need for the vapor barrier. If that's drywall, it's probably turned to mush already. Either way, you're better off to take it out. At a bare minimum, the waterproofing needs to go up to the height of the shower head.

Some of the guys are using Kerdi on the floor and on the benches, then using a paint-on waterproofing for the walls. I use Kerdi all the way up to the shower head. Either one will work. The paint-on will probably save you a few dollars over the Kerdi.

I just noticed something in the first pic....what's that between the bottom row of tile and the floor?

That's the blow-in cellulose insulation showing where I ripped out the existing cement board. That's actually an outside wall of the house. My back porch is on the other side. Right now I've only ripped out the bottom layer of tile so there's only about 1 foot showing. You answered my question though, there is no vapor barrier on the outside or the inside of the cement board walls of the shower so I guess I have some more tearing out to do.

The very first picture in your first post. Looks like it was before you tore anything out. Is that a line of 1x12 at the bottom of the wall and on the floor?

Yes it is. When we first noticed that we had a leak we thought it might have been due to some cracked grout around the pan. So we regrouted and put that 1x12 in, but apparently, that wasn't the only problem.

If you have a leak, it's not due to cracked grout. A shower should be waterproof even if there is no grout, or for that matter, if there is no tile. The waterproofing is (or at least it's supposed to be) under the tile and grout.

You'll want to go with a liquid waterproofing or a waterproofing membrane under the tile. Either of those will give you a shower that will last a lifetime.

Yes! At the time I hadn't done any research and was uninformed. I'm a coach and was in the middle of football season and didn't have time to do anything besides get a friend to come over and take a look. He said that the re-grouting was probably not the issue, but he thought that it might be worth a shot. Apparently he was wrong.

I have some more questions (I'm full of them). Before I do any rebuilding I want to get everything totally clean. Whats the best way to clean up any of the black mold that is on the floor and around the bottom of the wall? Also, I've got some 2x4's on the bottom plate of the wall that have a lot of black mold on them and are kind of spongy. Should try to cut them out and replace them? There's probably only about 2 to 3 feet that is very bad.

I'm going to put some 2x4 cross pieces up to stop the cellulose insulation from falling down the wall, and remove all the insulation that is close to the floor since it has some discoloration from water damage. I'm thinking about using the spray in foam in this area when I go to re-sheet rock. This is all around my sink where the leaking shower water drained, not in the shower itself.

Well, that's no good. I've been told that once wood begins to rot from water damage, it will keep rotting. There are ways to get that bottom plate out, but I've never had to do it. One possible way is to screw a 2x4 to the studs, then use a jack to raise that part of the wall just enough that you can pull the damaged piece out and replace it. Too much jacking will cause damage to the drywall, so you have to be very careful. RC or one of the other guys might have a better suggestion for replacing it.

As for mold on the concrete, a 10% bleach solution will probably work. Use a fan if you want to dry it out quickly.

Any pc of wood that has rot in it needs to be replaced.
As for the mold, any porous item that has mold on it needs to also be replaced or thoroughly cleaned. Bleach type cleaners DO NOT work on any item that is porous. Chlorine bleach is corrosive and the properties of chlorine prevent it from soaking in to kill the roots of mold, especially on wood products.

You should be cleaning moldy areas with a soap and water mix and rinse with clean water. Let everything dry completely before enclosing or covering those areas.

RC, just to clarify, are you saying he could use a bleach solution on the concrete, but not the wood? That's the way I understand it works, but I may be mistaken.

Did you have any suggestions for getting the bottom plate out, other than what I had proposed above? I've not tried that method myself, just heard about it. I thought you might have a better suggestion.

Bleach can only be effective on HARD non porous surfaces. Concrete is hard but it is porous, therefore it will not kill the roots of mold. Soapy water mix is always the first choice in mold remediation.

If you have to replace rotten studs, you will have to remove the entire stud which means removing all the drywall from one side of the room. If the wall is not load bearing you can just cut the nails off between the studs and the top of the bottom plate. Once the nails are cut on the bottom twist the stud and pull down to release it from the nails in the top plate. Use a cats paw prybar to remove the nails holding the plate to the floor. Cut out the rotten plate area and replace it with new material.

If the bottom plate is rotten there's a good chance the sub floor under it is also rotten.

since it's only about 3 feet that needs to come out, you just cut out the one or two studs a foot off the floor. Then slice out the bottom plate, leaving a bit of room to the next studs. then you put in a new bottom plate and another layer of bottom plate overlapping the existing. Then you splice in a doubled up stud . all in all about 30 minutes of work. If an entire load bearing bottom plate needs to be replaced then you build a temporary wall to support the ceiling joists and then cut out the plate.

I'd probably tear it all out and start from scratch. But of course I'm a perfectionist and tend to get a little obsessive. And no, don't skimp on the waterproofing.....