So I've been talking to Harry and Randall, these guys are an amazing help. I've created an issue for myself and am seeking the guidance of a pro for correction. So you can see from our conversation that they are great at what they do. Thanks guys.

Please Help
Mike C
New Member

Posts: 4

Hi Guys, I am very sorry to bother you. So I measured all my products and did all my math but when I was finished building my tub frame, I was kind of surprised to see that I really messed up on my math. I basically should of had 1 5/8" for my supplies to go on top of the tub frame, under the lip, but I ended up with only 1" under the tub's lip. Now of that 1" 5/8, I allowed for 1/2" of that to be for Thinset and Tile, I was wondering if you guys may have any suggestions on how I can still make this work without tearing it all out and starting again, cause it’s all tied in and down. I’ll attach a few pictures so you can see what I’m working with, please help I AM STUCK.


http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/s5O...feat=directlink

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#1070 - 08/30/09 09:38 PM
Re: Please Help
Harry


Hi Mike

The tub can be set higher using shims and dense foam (spray foam)
Even a layer of plywood close to the desired thickness.

_________________________
Harry Dunbar





#1071 - 08/30/09 09:47 PM
Re: Please Help
RC

All is not lost Mike. You will just have to butt the tile up to the face of the tub flange. Just make sure to leave a 1/8" gap between the tub flange face and any component (tile or cementboard) that comes up to it. Fill this gap with silicone.
_________________________
Randall



#1073 - 08/30/09 10:54 PM
Re: Please Help
Mike C

Now, When you say Shims, I assume under the platfoarm that is attached to the bottom of the fiberglass tub. But where would the spray foam go.





#1074 - 08/30/09 11:00 PM
Re: Please Help
Mike C

So Put the Plywood and DensSheild down, Redguard the The Seam s against the walls, and thinset the seams on the DensSheild. Then Thiset and Tiles On top but Against the Tub, leaving 1/8" gap between the Tile and Tub Flange, filling it with Caulking, as to have it go under the Tub Flange and Seal up to and level with the Tile. Just Checking, looking at both possibilities, Your's and Harry's. I really appreciate your help guys. I was so impressed with myself, LOL, till now.


#1075 - 08/30/09 11:02 PM
Re: Please Help
Mike C

Oh, also I was wondering if it's OK if I add a link to your site on my Blog, I'm just trying to start one so I can share my experiences with Friends, I am putting a section called "Helpful Sites," I've added it, but I will take it off if you preffer.

http://choppa181.blogspot.com



#1076 - 08/31/09 07:01 AM
Re: Please Help
Harry


I was suggesting that you could use the shims or plywood to set the tub higher off the floor to accomodate the height of the deck. The foam may be used to help fill the voids and distribute weight under the tub.

If the tub can't be set higher, then Randall's suggestion is the only option.

Perhaps take this into the forum so others may benefit .... and use your blog in your posts to show your progress. Great photos and great job mike!
_________________________
Harry Dunbar




#1077 - 08/31/09 07:05 AM
Re: Please Help
RC

I don't use cedar shims or spray foam under any tub. The shims and the foam will compress with the full weight of water and a person. Most tub/spa manufacturers require units to be set in a bed of mortar. (sorry Harry)
The feet or rails of the tub are the only places a tub should be supported

So as you can see it's been extremely helpful, so I thought I'd put it in Here for all to benefit like Harry said. Thank you very very much guys as always very helpful.

Visit my blog to see the pictures, let me know what you think or if you may have any advice.

http://choppa181.blogspot.com

Randall's right Mike .... for some reason I thought the tub had a wood structure with the legs.

The Tub does have a wooden structure on the bottom, basically there are two 5" lengths of 2x6 attached to the bottom of a piece of plywood that is fiberglassed to the tub.

The way I do it is to use plywood under the legs or rails to support the weight. You can use whatever size works. You can use mortar if you like but I have found the tub ends up with too much weight on the deck (tile). I use the foam under the whole structure to keep everything in place and right or wrong it's worked that way for me for years. I put a 10 year warranty on my work and I've yet to get a call back.
Use the method recommended by the manufacturer .... Randall is correct with the mortar bed, he just can't convince me to completely rely on it (maybe one day buddy). Even when I use mortar (rarely) I still like something solid holding the weight until the mud sets.

So place a sheet of plywood down, set the tub down, and then spray foam under in between the rails, and around the rails. Should I fill the whole gap between the rais, cause thats a lot of spray foam. lol.

The foam isn't used to support the tub .... the plywood holds the weight.
If your floor is level, then a sheet of plywood the proper thickness to support the tub. If the floor isn't level then set a small square of plywood at each end of the 2 rails and fill the void between the rail and floor with mortar. You may have to shim one end of a rail to make it level.
If you like, after the tub is set you can put a bit of water in the tub and spray a tube of foam under the main body.

You only need enough mortar so that the rails sink slightly into the mud.

OK, so I’m all done installing the tub deck, with plywood, and DensSheild, I'm at a point where I know I am supposed to use my fiber tape, and then mortar, but what king of mortar. I will be using a sand mix, to attach the tub to the floor, will that work or should I use Thinset. Also I've attached some pictures; I have used DensSheild to fill the space on the wall where I removed the dry wall. I was thinking of redguarding that joint and 6" up the wall just to be safe, what do you guys think.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kjQ...feat=directlink

Did you embed the DensShield in thinset?
The screws are not supposed to be countersunk. Your screws also need to be 8"O.C. on the tub deck.

Mesh the seams and corner joints and then skim coat those joints with thinset. Skim coat the screw heads also. Cover all skim coated areas with 2 coats of RedGard.

You could just use thinset to fill under the rails or feet.

Hey Randall, I didn't embed in Thinset, I didn't even realize I had too, (Well there’s another costly mistake.) Unless I can reapply the DensSheild in the same place, but I can only assume that because I've countersunk the screws I've sunk this project already, well that sucks. I guess I will cut my losses and reapply New DensSheild. So just to be clear, Cut the DensSheild to fit, Then Apply Thinset on top of my Plywood, place DensSheild down, and Fasten with Screw heads flush with the surface not countersunk. Then finish with your other directions above.

Sorry one more thing, when I apply the Thinset to secure the Tub to the floor should I use a bonding agent.

Your on the right track for the Dens re-installation.

The thinset for the legs is only a filler. It's not meant to hold the tub down, but it does help somewhat. No bonding agents are required. You should be using a modified thinset.

OK, so I’ve no installed the tub, I know it’s been a while but I had some surgery and such, and it was a bit longer than I expected till I felt enough energy to do it again. I had to put some plumbers putty under the seal of the drain to get it to stop leaking. But that was another story; my question has to do with the last picture on the website I've attached. The Floor I don’t Believe is level in my one spot but the drain is working great and all the water is draining properly. I've already secured the tub. With thinset as you can see, but what I was wondering is if I should use some spray foam under the tub's footing to help it from movement. My Life or Something Like it

I think that insulating a tub like this is a good idea regardless. Your water will stay warm longer. Each manufacturer has different recomendations, follow them. call for technical assistance if need be.

I usually set the tub in small piles of masonry mortar after the tile is set and leave the lip about 1/16th above the tiles and silicone the gap. That way the tub does not bear on the tile directly.

OK so it's been a while since I've done any work to the bathroom, but I've gotten back at it. I've followed as much instruction as I could and have finished installing the tub and have tiled the tube deck I made. To me it looks good, to the wife it looks great, but I'm a perfectionist and am upset with my few mistakes. Let me know what you guys think. Also I have a new issue, I am about to start tiling the floor, it is concrete and doesnt seem to be level. I believe primarily due to the fact that there is a drain in the floor. It seems to be a consistant 1/8 of an inch drop until you get closer to the drain. Any tips or tricks guys, thank you in advance.

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http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/0xf...feat=directlink

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That's all that matters.
You will probably have to use a smaller tile than the tub surround so that it conforms to the existing slope towards the floor drain.
Once you dry lay some pcs you'll be able to tell if lippage is going to be the issue.

Is there any way I can use the same tile, only reason I ask is because I've already purchased it about 6 months ago. About the Drain to any tips for that, I was thinking of putting a nice drain cover like chrome or something because it is a functional drain.

It really depends on how far out the slope starts. To use the same size pcs you would have to do four or more sections around the drain and out as far as the slope goes.
The layouts would be in a triangular grids out from the center of the drain. Each section may have to be prefilled as flat sections (with modified thinset) so you don't have a lot of lippage.

I would probably use a large snap in drain cover as the existing one you have doesn't look like it's adjustable. It's not going to be pretty unless you make it into a Schluter drain. You might be able to just take the large Scluter flange and set into the existing drain hole. Bond it to the cement with a modified thinset ensuring that it's fully supported.

Ok, I feel really dumb, I dont understand what you mean by;

"you would have to do four or more sections around the drain and out as far as the slope goes.
The layouts would be in a triangular grids out from the center of the drain. Each section may have to be prefilled as flat sections (with modified thinset) so you don't have a lot of lippage."

I appologize but I just cant visualize it.

Sorry that is a hard one to visualize. I would have to draw it for you but I can't do that in this forum. Best I could do is fax you a drawing if you PM me with a fax number or e-mail contact.

See if this works. Picture a round pizza cut into eight pcs. The cut lines or individual triangles represent the main long joint lines that start at the drain and go out to where the floor starts to be flat. The tile is laid in a normal square grid pattern within these triangles. Each triangle must be as flat as possible so that each section slopes and tilts as one unit.
Clear as mud Mike?

Now you know why I suggested a small tile.

I think I do understand now, but do you think there is any other way , only reason I ask is I really dont want to have a pizza slice shaped tile and grout lines running through out to a square. What about putting down some self leveling cement and taking away the preslope.

That is a possibility, but it will be more difficult to get any excess surface water to flow into a level floor drain. That drain is meant to remove as much as possible any flood water. It will never get rid of all the excess water without help by you, either pushing it towards the drain area or vacuuming it up.

So,it may not matter to you if it's level and you think there may be no chance of any floods in the basement. If that's the case then make it flat.

Of course there is always a worry of flooding, I just dont know what other ideas to do, do you think you might be able to still kind of sketch the Pizza thing out for me, if you get a chance. Just so I can get a better Visual, Thanks Randall.

OK, so I have a question in regards to tiling my floor, well a couple;

1) There is a Drain in the center of the room but off to one side of it, and the slope is approsimately 1/8" per foot towards the drain from the length of the room, and 1/4" per foot tfrom the width. I was wondering if I should put down some self leveling ement, or just tile?


2) we tore up limolium from the floor and it looks like the bottom layer of the linolium is now part of the cement, is it ok to tile over top of this or should I try and remove this as best as I can?

Thanks guys, I gotta get this floor done tomorrow, so if I have to add cement I think Im gonna do it tonight, I know this project has taken way too long, but as you say step 1 in the procrastination list is..................

Not sure what you mean by this, but generally all the paper needs to be scraped away. Thinset won't bond to the paper properly.

Cool thanks Kman, what do you think about the first question?

I'm assuming you're wanting to keep use of the drain in the room, correct?

If so, SLC is not what you'll want to use, because it will take away the slope to the floor. If you're worried about the floor not being flat, you can use different sized straight edges to check the floor to see if there are low or high spots to the slope that need to be filled/ground to make the slope proper. Keep in mind we're talking about flat, not level. You want a constant slope from the perimeter to the drain without any low or high spots.

Use a portland-based floor patch to fill those spots, or a grinder with a diamond cup wheel to take down the high spots. You will most likely have to use a smaller tile, though, to keep from having the corners of the tile sticking up. The 1/8" slope won't be bad, but where it drops 1/4" per foot, you will probably have trouble with lippage. I would guess that a 6" tile or smaller would work best. You might get by with something bigger, but avoiding lippage is going to be tougher the larger the tile are.