Newbee here, both on the forum and the shower retro...

Decided I wanted to tackle this project, after all, it's not rocket science.

Anyhow, here's a picture to start with:



Note the pipes on the left and the dryer vent in the right rear. The board on the floor is where I want to extend the new shower to, this will give about 44 inches square taking into consideration losing 4 inches on the back wall due to the dryer vent, and perhaps an inch on the left side. Thinking about a ledge on the back wall about 4 inches to compensate for the dryer vent. Sort of hard to explain. Also thinking of a seat for the right corner as well.

Getting ahead of myself...

I'll need to bring the drain toward the front perhaps six inches, going to chisel the slab out to do this. Also want to fill in the hole as well, should be no need for it. When I took the old shower out the pvc pipe appeared to have been cut off and was just sitting on top of the drain, hence the leaking grey water around the pipe.

Told my DW not to expect the shower to be done for at least a month. I work full time, so this will be a weekend and evening project.

Advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

I think the seat would be a good idea to cover the dryer vent. As for the water lines on the left, you might fur the wall out, but you'd have to do it all the way out to the shower opening. With your drain, you would need to dig out to the trap and move it as well so the drain falls directly to the trap.

Was there something specific you wanted to know, or just a general evaluation of your plans?

I suppose a general evaluation. So, there's a trap down there? I'll need to pull that water out as well as the wet dirt. Not visible are the pipes on the left side. Purchased shut off valves to install, will need to relocate the pipes to be centered.

I was thinking of putting 2x10's on the 3 sides, the one on the left side could be notched for the pipes? Perhaps I could elevate the floor and build up a wooden platform for the base of the shower pan?

If you're going to re-route the water lines and build a bench in the right corner, there's really no reason to fur out the walls.

You could move the water lines into that wall (interior wall, right) and drill holes through the studs to get them where you want them. Or, you could make a small trench in the slab and move them under the floor. The bench will cover the dryer vent.

The trap needs to be directly under the drain for proper drainage. Take the trap off, and extend the line down to the location of the new drain. Then re-attach the trap and run a piece of 2" PVC up to the slab.

Score or cut the slab then chisel it out to move your water/drain lines where you want them, then fill in the trenches with gravel up to the bottom of the slab, then concrete the rest of the way up. It doesn't have to be pretty, since the mud floor will cover everything.

I wouldn't bother with building a false floor there. Your shower step would be much too high then.

Not withstanding the above advice, what would be the purpose of the 2x10's?

Here are pics of the pipes, do I need to break up the slab that they are coming out of to get them moved? The pipes are on the left wall.





On the 2x10 question, I saw another how-to that had 2x10's on the side walls for the pan, what will be on the walls then? Maybe I don't know the best way to phrase the questions. A step-by-step on what to do is what I'm looking for, I'm about as green as they come, but have no issue with doing the work, just need to do it the correct way.

When you said (interior wall, right) you were referring to the wall they (existing pipes) are currently on, correct? I was thinking the shower head and handles would be centered on the wall (left interior) (centered between the back wall and front edge of the tile) unless that is not optimal, please advise.

Thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction.

Pritch-

Breaking up that little bit of slab and notching out the bottom plate would be the best way to move the water lines into the wall. From there you run them through the studs where you needed. Be careful not to puncture the water lines while you do this. You'll have to take the slab out to the full depth in that area.

And for the 2x10's, yes that's what you need for backing for the liner. I forget about those sometimes since a Kerdi shower doesn't require a liner.

OK, as you can see, I've managed finally to get the slab opened up around the pipes (without cutting into either one).

I thought that using a 7 inch $3 masonary cut off wheel on my circular saw would help, but after cutting for a few seconds only 2 inches long and maybe an inch deep decided it wasn't a good idea. I went back to drilling holes and whacking the concrete chisel with a 5 lb sledge to get it opened up. As you can see, I drilled a few 1 inch holes in the bottom plate and chiseled the bulk of the wood out, not very pretty, I'll admit.





Tomorrow I'll shut off the water and cut the 2 pipes at a decent height and install gate values, then I should be able to coax a little more bend into them and get them aligned in the wall area. I will get some new foam to wrap them as well. Any advice here?

Once I do that I need to finalize the drain (Kman, you were correct, there is a trap down there) and then relocate the hot and cold pipe runs to center the control and shower head on the left wall. I have 48 inches from left to right from stud to stud, so I am assuming that it's ok to have the depth at 48 inches as well. Do I center the drain at the 24 inch mark both ways? How high up should the drain opening be?

Once the pipes and drain is set, I think the next step would be to fill the holes with concrete, yes? Can I stick the broken concrete pieces back in before I add the cement? What is the best approach? How long should I let it cure (dry) before building the pan? Would I build the shower seat before starting the pan?

Speaking of the drain, when I took the old shower out the drain was not connected, but was just sitting on top of the pipe, here's a picture of the bottom of the old shower pan.



That sure looks cut to me (and I didn't cut it)... Why in the world would they do that? I did find gray water puddled around the pipe when I took the old shower out, it stunk. It's all dried up now. Thought I would share and ask.

I know, so many questions, thanks for taking the time to answer.

I'm not sure what the reason would be for the foam on the pipes. Someone else might have some info on that. You need clamps wherever the pipes go through the studs to prevent the 'water hammer'.

Center the drain between the left and right walls, and between the back wall and the dam. Stub up the drain line at about the level of the slab. You're going to cut it off to set drain at the correct height anyway. The flange of the drain should be about an inch above the slab to account for the preslope.

Why did they 'set' the drain that way? Who knows? There's no accounting for bad workmanship.

I would fill the hole with some pea gravel up to the level of the slab, then concrete the rest of the way. I wouldn't use any gravel with sharp points. No sense in taking the risk that one of them might puncture a water line. You could just fill the entire hole with concrete if they're not too big. Set the bench and let the concrete set overnight before you start the preslope.

I think the foam around the pipes is to stop corrosion. If I remember correctly...copper and portland cement don't really get along too well. I think duct tape will give the same protection though.

I'm seriously considering getting the Kerdi 48"x48" Shower Kit. Included is the presloped pan, curb, Kerdi drain and 108sf membrane. Seems to be a viable option. Is it as popular as it seems to be?

On Edit: Probably not the base, as I have to deal with the dryer vent in the right corner, but the drain and membrane for sure.

Definitely makes it a lot easier and faster, even though it costs a few dollars more. You need to make sure your slab is flat, and follow all the instructions. You can put it in after the walls are waterproofed so you don't risk damaging the foam.

http://www.schluter.com/8_3_kerdi_st_sc_sr.aspx


If the bench concerns you, look into getting the Better Bench. It doesn't go to the floor, so it won't affect the tray. You will need to go ahead and put some backing up between the studs to give it some support. Those 2x10's you were going to use for backing for the liner would work fine.

http://www.aquafit-usa.com/betterbench.htm

It's not that the bench concerns me, it's the dryer vent that is occupying space that I will need to work around. I suppose I *could* consider flattening it out some.....

I will probably skip the Kerdi base and do the drywall/kerdi with a normal preslope and build the bench and curb, and use the Kerdi drain and membrane.

Yeah, I forgot about the dryer vent. I would probably build the bench to cover the vent, then do a mud floor.

And just to clarify, there is no preslope with a Kerdi shower. Only one mud bed. You bond it to the slab with a coat of thinset slurry.

OK, no preslope, but, it *will* be sloped toward the drain!

Today made some progress, put the gate valves on:



Then I decided to tackle moving the drain. Here's the old trap and drain:



and here's the new one:



I think I remember reading (Edit: yes, back on page one) that the trap should be directly under the shower drain, so hopefully that is correct, if not, now is the time to fix it.

Got all the dirt (sandy soil, really) back in and tamped down. I decided I would put plastic down on the dirt before the concrete, so the concrete will stay, after all, there was plastic there to begin with, any issue with doing this? I'll allow the soil to dry for at least a week before I add the concrete. How should I do around the drain? put the cement right against the drain or leave a depression around it? Should I extend the drain above the slab?



Thanks!

I don't think there is any real need in waiting for the dirt to dry out (unless you're just using that as an excuse to not do any work for a week ).

Stub up the drain line just above the slab (you'll cut it off later). In your case, since you're going to repair a section of concrete adjacent the drain, I would probably take a large coffee can or something of similar size and put it over the drain, then pour the concrete around it. Let the concrete set for just a little, then pull the can out. This will leave some space for the Kerdi drain to be put in. The way the drain is shaped, part of it has to go below the surface of the slab, and this will leave you enough room to get it put in. Then you can fill the remaining void with deck mud.

Alternately, you could go ahead and set the bench, cover the walls with drywall, then set the drain at the same time you pour the concrete. Then you could do the mud floor the next day.

Either way will work.

OK, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how best to mount the new shower control. I've cut the pipes and installed shut-off valves and before I can install drywall I'll need to mount the control and complete the plumbing for it.

I want to affix the control to a vertical stud, not sure of the depth. Here is a pdf file of the installation instructions for the control I'll be installing, and from what I understand I'll need to pick one of A,B or C for steps 1-3. It seems like C would be the one, and it looks like I'll need to cut a pretty large hole (4.5 inches), is that correct? That's a pretty big hole to worry about leaking...

Some help on this is very much appreciated.

You would only attach the valve directly to the stud if the stud is at the 4' mark, or very close to it. Most of the time, the valve is mounted on blocking between two studs.

As for the depth, the plastic ring that's screwed to the front of the valve is used to set the depth. The face of the ring should be 1/2" out from the studs, plus the thickness of your tile. (picture 2C) The drywall will be cut around this ring.

So, if the valve does happen to sit on a stud, you will need to cut enough of the stud to accommodate the actual valve, not the ring. If it falls between studs, just screw a 2x4 between the studs, and set it back far enough to keep the ring at 1/2" out, plus the thickness of your tile.

The trim ring that comes with your valve should have a seal on the back of it that seals up to the face of the tile. Also, the recent Kerdi drains are coming with a valve seal. It's basically a rubber ring that fits around that 4 1/2" hole, with about 2" of Kerdi material extending out from it. This allows for a pretty good seal.

I didn't use the valve seal on the last job I did, because there were two valves and only one ring. Instead, I smeared silicone around the exposed core of the drywall. Not much moisture is going to get in there anyway, but if it does, the silicone will protect the drywall.

Managed to complete the plumbing-



Also managed to build the shower bench-





I did slant the bench toward the drain, about 1/4" per foot from both walls, about 3/8" for the 18" overall sides, was that too much?

I'll be adding a piece of granite for the top of the bench, can I have it overhang perhaps 1/2" on the front edges? Should I? I'm assuming I drywall first, then butt the granite against the drywall when I thin set it in place.

Thanks.

Pritch, you need to remove those shut off valves from the supply lines. You can't bury valves in a non accessible wall space.
There is no way to get at them if the valve stems leak.

The granite slab is the very last pc to go in. All the drywall, Kerdi and tile is done first before the seat top.
Your granite fabricator normally does the templating.

I will have an access panel to the gate valves on the other side of the wall (walk in closet). What's the logic?

If you are going to have an access panel then thats ok.

There's really no reason to have shut offs on shower valves. Most homes are not set up to hide valves behind ugly access panels. You just happen to be lucky.

If I may ask this question again...

How is granite typically installed? Does it overhang any or not? So, it goes on last, on top of thinset, does the tile on the wall come down to the top of the seat base and the edge of the granite goes against the tiled wall?

Thank you.

It'll be much easier if you finish tiling the walls around the bench as well as the face of the bench. Then let the company that's selling you the granite come out and make a template to make the slab.

It's possible that the walls where the granite sits will not be at a perfect 90 degree angle, hence the need for the template. You can determine how much of the seat you want to overhang the front of the bench and they can round off the front of the seat to accommodate the overhang.

So, I tile the wall above the bench all the way down to the top of the bench? Then the vertical edges of the slab will go against the face of the tile? What will be used to seal the edges of the slab against the tile?

It really shouldn't need to be 'sealed', as such. The bench should be waterproofed before the granite is put on. However, for aesthetic purposes, you could use a color-matched caulk, as long as it's silicone based, or use clear silicone.

The only downside to using clear silicone on a horizontal surface is that it has a tendency to trap water behind it, and therefore contribute to mold growth. Having the waterproofing layer of the bench top sloped down toward the drain may keep this from happening, but you may still have to replace the silicone every couple of years if it starts to look bad.

It's been a while since my last post, doing a little at a time.

Question- I've read where you should *not* use joint compound before putting the kerdi, does the thinset handle filling any gaps?



Question- what to use to fill the gaps around the showerbase?

Oh, here are my 2 access panels-



They are in the back of the walk-in closet, so not a big deal.

You can prefill the gaps with thinset or just fill them while your installing the Kerdi.

the reason you want to tile first and then pop in the granite is that the bench should be a bit sloped. Tiling on top of the granite would mean every tile has to be a bit tapered. It's doable, but time consuming. I have found that a 1 inch overhang on the granite looks good. If need be you can shape the granite with a grinder and diamond wheel to get a perfect fit.

I usually grout the corners of the bench and then apply a thin layer of translucent white silicone over the grout to keep it from cracking.

OK- here is my next question-

I have this niche that I bought, I'm not sure that it's going to mount with a very flat surface between the edge and the surrounding drywall. I am going to use kerdi, so need to know the best way to do this. When I push it against the drywall, it appears to be about 1/16th of an inch thick.... Do I "cut a recess" into the drywall? Do I cut the drywall out from behind the edges and build the wood up enough to have a flush surface? Perhaps buying the preformed niche was a mistake?

I would notch the drywall and embed the niche in thinset so that everthing is flush to the drywall surface.
The Kerdi will then sit flat on the face of the niche.

From your photo, I notice the drywall has compound over the screws and it looks like there's a taped and mudded joint above the niche. You should not have taped or applied any drywall joint compound to any surface thats going to get Kerdi. Thinset won't stick to the joint compound, especially if you sanded any of it.
You are going to have to prime the compund areas and then wait 3 days minimum before applying any Kerdi.

Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that about the joint compound.

I was reading "The Kerdi Shower Book" by John P. Bridge and he noted that the recess joints (horizontal seams between the boards) should be taped, and that was all that was required. He also noted that he did not have time to sit around waiting on the drywall compound to dry. So I reasoned that I *did* have time for that to dry and decided to prep all.

So, sand and prime, I'll do it.

Now, back to "notching" the drywall for the flanges of the niche, does "notching" mean to only remove enough of the drywall to get the surface flush? Or would it be better (easier) to remove all the drywall under the flanges and add enough support on the underlying framing (which is on all 4 sides) to get the surface flush?

What John meant is the seams can be taped with Alkali-resistant mesh and filled with thinset, NOT drywall compound.
Seams or joints do not need to be taped when Kerdi is being installed.
You can notch the drywall about 1/4" as long as there is still full support behind the board.
Use thinset to set the flange area and construction adhesive for the back of the niche which butts up to the other drywall.

I have started to score the drywall around the flange of the box and use a chisel to take out about a 1/16" to make the flange flush with the drywall.

If that's a Recess-it box, it should have come with four screws, and there's a hole on each side of the box to put them in.

Good thing about Recess-it box vs. making your own, is that Recess-it is already waterproofed. I cut the Kerdi even with the inside of the box then hit the bottom corners with a little silicone to seal them up.

Thanks so much for the responses... if I knew then what I know now...

Let me also add that I plan to use the slightly modified Versabond instead of the unmodified thinset, I've read a lot of posts where the kerdi has not adhered well when using the unmodified, and also, John has indicated himself that he uses Versabond acknowledging the voiding of the warranty. What are your thoughts, can I use it everywhere, under the kerdi, under the prefab curb and tray as well as under the tile?

I know a lot of people use it as an alternative to some of the cheaper unmodified thinsets that are available. This may have come about because the only unmodified at Home Depot is sub-standard.

I've used Laticrete Megabond from Lowe's for quite some time now and have never had a problem with it. It's a little cheaper than Versabond and retains the warranty.

Well, the notching went really well:



Now it's time to finish sanding the joint compound areas and to prime the walls. Is it ok to just prime all the wall being I've mudded a good bit?



I've seen other posts recommending the Zinsser Cover-Stain Oil-Base Primer-Sealer from Home Depot.

I'm not the only one who derived the same conclusion from John's Kerdi Shower book, and that is the sealer recommended for the others in the same boat as I.

I wish John had clarified that either in the book or as an addendum, it would have helped not only I but others as well.

Edit:

Here's another question, how deep do the dips have to be under the shower base before I have to use leveling compound? The floor is basically level, but has very shallow dips, when I walk around on the base there are 2 places where there is a slight movement of the tray. Will the Versabond serve to "fill" these shallow areas?



Another Edit: I just re-read all the posts in this thread, and back on an earlier post I stated that I read where one should not use joint compound with the kerdi, and I did it anyway, what was I thinking? Probably forgot I read it, re-read John's book and thought to do it. Dummy me.

dips are very easy to fill. Just pour in a bit of runny thinset and strike off the excess with a straight edge. the next day take off any bubbles or bumps with a trowel.

OK, got the walls primed (1st coat) and the slurry down. Wow, had to have the windows open most of the day.



Decided to put the tray down and let the slurry dry as it needs to as I'm not in any hurry.



Hopefully this is not a big no-no. Please advise in case I have to pull it up. The level checks a good slope all the way around towards the drain.

Most installers I have heard from that use the tray prefer to wait until the walls are tiled before they put the tray in because it's very susceptible to damage from foot traffic until it's waterproofed and tiled.

At this point, I'd probably put down some scrap drywall or something to protect it, or go ahead and waterproof and tile it first. Someone here that has more experience with the tray might have a better suggestion.

I can definitely put some drywall on it.... Have plenty of that left over.

OK, questions on the best approach for the sequence of installing the tile. Factors include the niche, the bench and a thought on the desired pattern.

Here are a few photos that show all of these elements and based on this what is the best way to approach the tiling process? Where to start?




This is what the left wall is envisioned to look like.


Will have to cut no matter what for the niche...

I always start on the bottom row first. Once that is level all the way around the perimeter, you can stack the walls all the way to the ceiling if you want.

Some like to use a ledger board at the bottom to start at the second row, then install the first row at the end. That entails repairing holes in the Kerdi, which I'm not a fan of.

I usually do the niche after that, then the bench, then the floor.

If I do that then when I get to the niche who knows how the tiles will fall, wouldn't it be a good idea to end up with symmetrical tiles around the niche?

Sure. But I would rather have full tiles the bottom, and you can plan your layout so your vertical lines fall where you would want them inside the niche. I would let the horizontal lines fall where they may. That's just my two cents worth, though.

You could turn the tile inside the niche on a 45 degree angle, that way you wouldn't have to worry about the lines at all.

I like that idea!

First check the layout. Stack about two feet of tiles with the correct grout line on the floor and measure the distance. Then make marks at that spacing all the way to the cailing. Make sure you will not be ending up with a small strip at the ceiling. If you end up with a one inch strip up top it will look bad and you may need to start on a 1/2 tile for your bottom row.

The good news is I'm not going to the ceiling.... leaving about 18-20 inches....

Started with the Kerdi Band, figured it would be better to start with the smaller pieces as I've never done this before. A little messy (a lot, really). Seems the top center corner of the bench has 2 band overlaps, and I still need to put the inside corner on. I have some excess thinset on the outside of, was it ok to remove some of that before I install the corner piece? I used a sanding sponge to remove some of the excess.



Another concern is the two angles of the bench where it meets the floor, wierd angle for the outside corners, any advice on how to use an outside corner for that?



What about the corner to the left, I should put an inside corner there also, yes?

And the last question is about the edge of the left wall in this next picture, I plan on tiling to the edge of the wall, how close does the kerdi need to be to the edge? Don't think it would be good to bring it right up to the edge.



Thanks for answering my questions, it is really appreciated!

Pritch-

Pritch, I'm not sure what a sanding sponge is, but if it's kind of rough, you don't need to use it. Kerdi has an anchoring fleece that can be rubbed off if agitated enough. You really need a regular grout sponge for your work. They're only about $2 apiece. Get yourself a couple or three of them, and clean them with water at the end of the day.

The better you clean Kerdi immediately after it's applied, the less likely you are to have build-ups with the overlaps. I have also found that a couple of 6" wide drywall knives (with the sharp corners ground off) makes it easy to work the Kerdi in without pulling it out of place. You can use one knife to hold the corner in place while working out the thinset with the other. Keep your thinset on the loose side and lightly dampen the wall with a sponge before applying the thinset to help with this.

That 45 degree corner is one of the toughest parts of working with Kerdi, and one of the reasons I start Kerdi on the floor and work up from there, overlapping the lower pieces with the upper pieces. The best way I have found to deal with them is to cut a piece of Kerdi band in the shape of a wide 'V' in a 45 degree angle (looks kinda like a Stealth bomber), put it on the floor with the bottom of the V pointing away from the corner and push it up on the vertical surface about a 1/4" or so. Then have the vertical sheet come down over the piece to the floor. Water would have to run uphill to get past that.

On your step, bring the floor section up and over it, then down to the floor outside the shower. This may entail cutting a separate piece just for the step, which is usually what I do. Just make sure you have the required 2" overlap, and that it runs to the wall on both ends. You'll need to take that piece of trim off to do that. Then use the two outside corners that came with your drain to do the curb/wall junction on the inside of the step. I usually have to cut the ends off to make them fit. You don't want them sticking out past the corner of the curb, obviously. Those outside corners will overlap your inside corners on the floor. Use an inside corner at each corner of the floor, as well as the on the back corner of the bench.

Hope that all makes sense.

One last thing: Is that Custom Blend thinset you're using? If it is, a word of warning: Custom Blend is a very cheap unmodified thinset that doesn't work very well, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it's the only unmodified that HD has to offer. If you can get to Lowe's, get their Laticrete Megabond, or Mapei Kerabond. You'll find them easier to work with and the bond is much better.

The Custom Blend was the first thing I saw in your picture. Darn stuff, I thought someone mentioned to use a high quality unmod in this thread. You don't want to go to the orange place for tile supplies, waste of time.

Jaz

Thanks Kman for your very detailed response, and Jaz, you only saw part of the bag of thinset, here's a better picture of what it really is.

That will probably work fine, although you know it will void your warranty since it's modified, right?

Yes, I do. I've read a lot of postings from folks who seem to have had problems with unmodified. I know the professional installers probably have the installation down just right and everything adheres just fine, but I've read that the biggest reason for the unmodified is the drying time. At the rate I'm going, it will have plenty of time to dry before I get the grouting in. Of course, John is very clear about what he uses!

Yes, they all lean toward Versabond, since it's only lightly modified. I don't care for it myself, and the guys on JB forums are pretty strict about standards and manufacturer's guidelines, but for some reason in this area they deviate.

I know the chances of ever needing the warranty are slim to none, but I would hate to think that in the event I needed it, I had done something that would automatically void it.

I've had pretty good luck with Megabond, so I recommend it to anyone who asks.

Good luck on your project progress. Take your time, and keep things cleaned up. It'll make things easier on you in the long run.

Drying time is one reason, the other is that modified thin set will tend to re-emulsify if it gets wet and stays wet in the future.

I found out the hard way. I installed some porcelain outdoors using a very good quality thin set. I won't say which one but it cost about $24 a bag in 1998, and that was wholesale. The job was going bad by the next spring. Had latex leeching and one area came loose. I removed to repair only to find the high quality modified was mush. Just like Schluter describes. (There were no Schluter products used on this job).

If you knew John and asked him about which thin set he would use he would say Ditraset, if only he could get it where he lives.

The only reason Versabond has become a popular recommendation is that it is easy to find. Even John mistakenly thought it was a medium grade modified instead of an entry-level product. No one has done any testing, all the info is off-the-cuff comments. It will probably work fine. But Schluter has tested for years and we should go with what they say.

Jaz

If I may add..off the cuff I mean .....Home Depot does have a good quality unmodified...it's called Premium Blend..comes in white and grey..though, not all stores carry it. Nice stuff. It's 20 bucks a bag though.


Personally, the good folks at Schluter should be saying to all retailers...if you sell our product, you must sell(insert name here) to install it. It would save a lot of trouble.

Brian, do you have a link to Premium Blend? I couldn't find it on either Custom's or Home Depot's websites.

Well, first of all..I got the name wrong..it's called Premium Plus.....I just read now that it has been discontinued..as of January 2008. I bought a bag of grey in October....wow!

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/Pr...arc&lang=en

Premium Plus was discontinued in January 2008.

Use Mapei Kerabond if you can find it.

Great minds think alike!

Seriously, it's still on the shelf here where I live. How old can that stock be?...yikes

Hi Bri,

In fact I encountered the same issue with PremiumPlus from Custom Building Products. But in fact, PremiumPlus is only discontinued in the United States. It is still manufactured for the Canadian market, which is why we still find it on the shelves. It is not old stock.

After a couple of weeks off for the holidays, started back. Took a couple outside corners and used them for the 45's, folding the material...



Then I took an inside corner, cut it in half and put over the folds.

Got the drain cemented in and half the walls are kerdied. I know most say to leave the floor for last, but I'll be sure to protect it as I continue. I do have 2 small areas that are "bubbles", I'll fix those when I finish the rest of walls.

It's been a while since I've posted, so here's a few pics.

Finished the Kerdi finally...



Then started the niche...





Finished the niche and started the field tile...



I did not have to use ledger boards, I found that I could take my time and set a tile row for a ledger...



Continuing the tiling, the cuts take some time...



I found a use for the laser trac...



And finally where I left off this weekend...

Hi Pritch, It looks like you are doing a fine job there!

And good work with the Kerdi-it can be a real PITA in niches and on benches, which it looks like you did a good job with the Kerdi there.

Rock on, Pritch!

Nice work on the shower! 4x4 ... lots of work and running bond pattern to boot ... good work

Thanks for the positive feedback. Primary concern is the WAF....

I had to google to see what "running bond pattern" meant...

Yes, I decided that anything that might be skewed vertically would be masked by alternating the tiles, the eye could not draw any vertical lines that way. It's working out pretty well.

Question on changes of plane, ie, wall to wall, floor to wall, etc. I decided to not use transition items such as Dilex, etc as I have a couple of 22.5 degree 3-way points (front of bench) that are not available so thought it best to not use anything.

My question concerns whether to grout or caulk these transitions. The book answer is the caulk, but it seems like all the pictures I see appear to be grouted.

Thoughts, please.

Factors to take into consideration have to do with framing construction, substrate materials, waterproofing application etc.

Yes, text book is caulking, but that's not to say hard grouting can't be done successfully. Depends on the above construction factors.

Thanks, Randall. I'll have think about it.

Redo time, the more that I looked at how the front of the bench was turning out, the more I didn't like it, so I pulled off the tile (and some kerdi, too)... If you look close, (one and a half tiles to the right of the diamond) was not looking good, you can see where the tile was not right, just looked like doodoo.






I did figure out the problem, though. Seems I put too many screws on the 1st drywall, and this is what bowed it in in the center... I started with this one until I realized it, so removed all except the outside screws.... I put the kerdi part way up the backside of the new drywall pieces and on both sides as well, so I should be ok.



Brought the kerdi around fairly tight...



Then I put the frontal piece on....



I have just enough kerdi left to do a drape-over from the top of the bench... I'm glad I ordered extra.

Where I see a potential failure in your redo is a the top of the bench (against the tile)where it meets the new front outside drywall pcs. I hope you bought some Kerdi Fix because that's what your going to need to seal that area. If you don't do that water is going to get into those new drywall pcs.

Good catch Randall.

As long as I stood there figuring this out, that was the one item I missed.

Yes, I have a tube that has yet to be opened.

Thanks again!

BTW the most help full site I have came across on the net THANKS! I have a question about a bench. This is my first post and first shower , so bare with me. I just finished the Kerdi on the walls, and I'm in the process of doing a water test. (I'll send pics soon)

So I decided I want a bench, and the tile shop guy said "Why don't you just put a marble bench in?" He said this bench rests sandwiched between two tiles that's back buttered in, and its not going anywhere.?? I'm 64 220 how is a marble slab not supported going to hold me or anyone?

Can I build a bench over kerdi, if so is there another thread showing how, or would this marble insert work?

Thanks!!

I've heard from several installers that have done what you are proposing and have had success with it. It's all about shear force, which is measured in pounds per square inch (or maybe in kilograms per square centimeter for those Canadians ;)). Your regular thinsets are going to be adequate to handle that load.

Having said all that, I can't get past the idea of putting a significant amount of weight on that bench, much like you are thinking. That's why I use these:

http://www.innoviscorp.com/better-bench.php.

While it's certainly better to have some solid wood blocking in place to mount the better bench, there are drywall anchors that come with the bench that can certainly handle the load. And since it's a corner bench, you can certainly hit the studs in the corner, and if you have a stud finder you can probably hit another one or two away from the corner.

There's a little mud work involved on the bench, and some waterproofing and tile work, but it definitely holds up well and matches well.

Problem i need solved. Bought a home depot drop in shower and the drain is 12 * 12. My existing drain from the old shower is about 1 inch out. How can i get the drain to align without doing extensive work to bust the floor up. I have very limited verticle to add 45 as the 2 messed up are at drain level of shower. Even with a street elbow i am too high.

just need info on moving the existing drain to mess with the new one in the concrete floor with minimum disturbance

Only way I know of is to cut or score the concrete to where the drain will be moved, then chisel or jackhammer out the concrete down to the base.

Plumbing specs say to move the trap to the area directly below the drain. That may require removing some more concrete to give you some room to work, 1. to get the existing trap out, and 2. to put the trap below the drain.

I have in the past, on the advice of a master plumber, simply left the trap in place and run the 2" line from the new drain location to the trap (about two feet) with a couple of 90 degree elbows. This is not to code, but doing it to code would have required me to dig down about two feet below the surface of the slab in both locations. That kind of work requires removing several square feet of the slab, which is not a fun job to say the least.

I'm back. Been sidelined a while, fell over backwards over a tire on the ground and fractured my elbow, been taking it easy.

The wife has been a trooper, very patient with me, what is this, in a couple of months it will be a year? Wow. And I was worried I might not let stuff dry enough before grouting. If it isn't dry now....

Anyhow, here are a few pics and a question as well.



As you can see, just about done with all the little pieces, a couple on the front of the bench, a couple on the inside of the curb, and just above the curb. Need to get the granite folks out to measure for the top of the bench.







Here's a question, here is the outside of the curb, the way the 4.25 tile and the trim stack, they are a perfect fit from the floor ... should I do that or should I tile the floor first and have the tile on top (meaning I'll be trimming some off the bottoms of the 4.25 tiles).

You can do it either way.
I personally would do the floor first, then the bottom row of tile.

Sorry to hear about your set back. Hope there's no complications with the arm.
Your lucky, not to many wives as patient as yours.

Question on grout selection-

Best grout and sealer to use on shower wall tiles

and

Best grout and sealer to use on shower floor tiles.

Obviously we don't want the shower to be a constant maintenance issue, so thoughts and best practices in this regard would be helpful. Also, which grout types and manufacturers are better?

We have a Lowes and Home Depot locally.

Thanks-

Pritch

Unfortunately, asking "what's the best grout or sealer" is very subjective. Installers usually have personal picks as to which one they prefer, based on what's available in their area and previous experiences with a particular product.
All manufacturers nowadays have very good products. Mapei, Tec, Laticrete are all good choices.

Same thing goes for sealers. Aqua Mix, Stone Tech etc. Just make sure you get the correct sealer for the application you need to do. READ the manufacturers instructions and choose accordingly.

It does not matter whether its a floor or wall, the same sealer should do both.

A sealer is not going to stop regular maintenance or cleaning for your shower, its just going to make it a little easier to control any soap scum or mineral deposits while the sealer is effective.

Thanks, Randall.

Making some progress, working on the floor tile.





Working on the toilet area first. It's one thing to have to shower in the other bathroom.... Got some sanded grout there first, then tomorrow seal, and then replace the commode.

Here are new roman tun faucets:



These cost me a few $$$. Ended up having to call a plumber in Friday as I mistakenly removed the stem nut instead of what I thought would be the nut to allow the assembly to drop down. No, the stem took off like a rocket, cutting the palm of my hand on it's way to the wall. It was the hot water stem, needless to say, I was in hot water with the DW. Took a good 60 seconds to hightail my butt out to the curb at 6am and get the water main turned off. It was like a geyser, sorry, no, I did not stop to take a picture, it would have been kinda cool to have that picture though. Just a good bit of water to clean up, but nothing that a few towels and a shop vac couldn't handle. I had to get to work, so I finally scheduled a plumber to install the new hardware and get the water back on. Took a "swimming pool" shower, not sure if anyone at work noticed, though. Anyhow, memories.

Just in case you didn't know, the plumbing access panel can be an independent 2x4 panel with about 1/4 inch play. It gets wedged into place firmly with wooden wedges. then you tile over it and grout to the existing tile. when you need access you just cut through the grout and pop it loose. It helps to have a printout with the picture above for reference as to the location.

Good idea, pistolpete... If I hadn't already bought a panel I'd probably do it.

Got this panel from HD, fits anywhere from 10x10 to 15x15 inches. I don't even think we are going to paint it, it matches the white tub, and it will be about 4 inches from the side of the throne, so it's not like it's very prominent.

OK, getting closer to the end.

Just this afternoon finished grouting the floor:









The last major item is to tile the front of the curb. Other items include quarter round, baseboard trim (behind the throne) , caulking, etc.

The granite piece should be soon. Still need to grout the shower. Maybe tomorrow.

Maybe it will be done before a year is up.

If you get it done in a year, you'll be months ahead of a lot of others DIY'ers.

Ok, getting very close to the end, the only items remaining include the granite bench seat (pending receipt), a little caulking and wallboard painting, and seal the floor grout.

Here are a few pictures.















Many thanks to all who guided me in this project, your input was instrumental in allowing me to do a decent job.

I think the best moment was the other day when the DW was sitting in the bathroom looking around at it all and said "you really did good, I love it".

You did better than "decent", Pritch. That's a bang-up job.

You should be proud.

OK, finally got the granite back from the company, this looks to be the best fit I can get, the walls are not that flat. Here are a couple of pics.

Do I use thinset on the bottom? Can I use grout for the area between the wall and the granite? Or, are there any transitional type of items available that would help?

Use thinset to set the granite. I would back butter the slab also.

If there's enough overhang,I personally would fine tune the fit to be tight. If your confident in your ability to properly scribe and cut the slab then go for it, otherwise you'll have to look at a fairly large silcone bead, either clear or white.

DO NOT use grout between the slab and wall as it will eventually crack.

OK, went and bought a 4 1/2" grinder and wheel designed for granite, specifically these:

HF 95578

and

HF 98729

The granite company we have been working with have been very unresponsive, and it took a really long time before we finally got the slab back from them. Granted, this was a freebie from them as compensation for not being timely when we bought the granite countertop last year, so I consider myself lucky to have gotten the slab. It wasn't cut to my instructions, and perhaps there might have been some confusion, but anyway, I've taken it so far twice to a local place that is charging me $20 each time I get a little more trimmed. So, there is very little left to trim off, and I figured I could do this myself.

Tell me a little about the scribing process... is it just making a mark using the wall as a guide?

Any comments? Remember, I'm a DIY'er...

Thanks.

The picture or link for the diamond wheel shows a cup grinding wheel. That's not the right one for trying to trim an edge. That wheel is meant for grinding a flat surface.

You need a flat diamond wheel. I would try to get a smooth rim type as there's less chance of chipping the top edge.

If theres very little overhang left on the front edge I would say you will have to leave it as is or get another slab. As a novice it will probably take a few tries to get it right and you're not going to have any room for error on the pc you have now.

I'll try to explain the process but without showing you a drawing it might be a little difficult to grasp the technique.
You may want to try this on a pc of bristol board first to get the technique mastered before messing up your slab.

1.Put masking tape on the top of the slab flush to the edge where it will butt up to the walls.

2.Place the slab on the seat area and make sure the overhang measurements are equal around the front edges.

3.This is where it gets a bit confusing to verbally explain. Your not going to hold the compass perpendicular to the wall because you're going to be trimming two edges 90 degrees to each other. The compass needs to be held perpendicular to the long front edge of the slab and set to the widest gap that is between the wall and the slab. This cut method allows the slab to be slid straight back to the rear 90 degree corner point.
With the compass set and holding the angle of the compass perpendicular to the long front edge, start in the rear corner and with the point against the wall and the pencil portion resting on the tape, pull the compass forward to the front corner. Do the same for the other edge but DO NOT change the opening you originally set on the compass.

As you can see this may be quite difficult for a novice to comprehend and do.

4.Now you need to trim up to line with your grinder with a slight inward bevel towards the bottom of the slab, except theres no bevel at the front edge. Clear as mud, right!

Again, with no experience this is going to be a daunting task.
Hope your successful!

Thank you for your very detailed reply, Randall.

I still have an overhang of at least 1/2 inch for both sides and 3/4 inch for the long front edge, so taking 1/8 inch off each side should be fine.

Perhaps another $20 for a final trim by the local granite folks isn't than bad of an option, unless I can find the flat diamond wheel locally, like Home Depot or Lowes.

I think I understand the scribing process.

Is it like the following?



Again, thank you.

You'll spend much more than $20 for a decent diamond blade.

I will only need to remove very little material, perhaps 1/8 inch for 6 inches on each side, is there anything else like diamond sandpapers?

Kman's right about the blade, it will cost more than the the shop will charge to cut it.

Why don't you scribe it and take it to the shop for cutting.

You have too much material to remove and diamond pads or polishing disks are not meant to do that.

Unless you plan to do more tile work I would forget about buying more tools. Just take it to the shop for cutting.

ok. You are correct.

I deal with granite quite a bit. In my experience a cup wheel is quite effective at grinding off parts of the edge of granite slabs. The trick is to make contact with the slab so that the wheel is not tearing out crystals on the finished edge. this means that looking down on the finished surface of the slab, the front edge of the wheel should be tipped about 1/2 degree forward so that the back edge is not making contact. eye protection a must.

To scribe this seat I would simply set in in place and slide a sharp carpenter's pencil along the walls. This gives about a 1/8" scribe.

Took the stuff back to HF, scribed the seat and took it for trimming. That was good advice, thanks for steering me in that direction. Here's the fit, pretty good for walls that aren't very straight.



I thin-setted it in place yesterday, (back-buttered as advised), and this morning it's as though the portion of the slab that has the thin-set under it appears darker. Is this normal, and will it eventually change back to how it was?

The stone has absorbed moisture from the thinset. Some natural stones will do that, some don't.
You should be fine once it dries out.

Thanks, Randall.

How long should I let it dry before sealing with silicone?

Besides sealing where it meets the wall, I'll also be sealing under the front and side edges so water doesn't get to the thin-set underneath it.

You can silicone the joints 24 hours after setting the pc.
Just make sure the thinset that's exposed under the front edge is dry.

How long before the darkened slab dries up? I should wait for that to dry, yes?

As long as it takes. Can't give you any definite time frames as it depends on the climatic conditions, IE: temperature,humidity levels,etc.

The surface of the thinset where it's exposed should dry out within that 24 hour period, enough to allow you to silicone the joint.

The granite pc may take some time. Has the color changed at all?

The day after I thin-setted the slab I noticed the darker color- It's still the darker color now, I'll leave it alone this week and see what it looks like after another 5 or 6 days.

Did you use white thinset to install the stone?

yes

Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a grey mortar that may have caused the shading problem.

Well, after having a heater on for the last several weeks, it has finally dried out.



To prevent anymore moisture from being absorbed from the bottom side of the overhanging edge, I've sprayed several coats of polyurethane there.

Just finished putting some clear silicone, should be showering in it tomorrow! Woo Hoo !!!

Hopefully the issue has been resolved.

Let us know what happens after that first shower.

All is good, we've had a few showers now, and there is no change in the color of the bench.

Wow, it sure is really nice to have a bigger shower, can turn around without knocking something over.

The project is now deemed complete.

On to the next project?

Already on it.... Formal dining room makeover- remove popcorn ceiling, eliminate wall paper, etc. Should be done within 2 weeks.