I'm using it on this job Kerdi Board shower It builds a shower better than any backer board I've ever used.

Looks like a winner to me.
Are you taping joints with Kerdi Band or Sealant?

Taping with Kerdi band. I used a bit of sealant in one spot, but I'm continuing with the band for the rest of the installation.
It is definately a winner Randall .... it's going to be expensive but it will increase productivity big time. It will become available sometime in April.

Randall ... what do you know about its vapor retardant properties?

As far as I know the vapor properties are the same as Kerdi with the added benefit of some thermal insulation.
As you have seen, the membrane is not actual Kerdi.

The multiple methods for installing the board pretty much cover any job site issues.

Now, if you could use Kerdi fix or HydroBan at some of those corner areas and not have any excess build-ups.

I'll try to see if there is any formal literature at Coverings.

Schluter 2" Kerdi board and Kerdi-Fix.

Pretty strong stuff.

[img]http://[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3599/schluter007.jpg[/img][/img]

Hi Harry, nice pics of the Kerdi board installation. Have you used Wedi before? If so, how does this compare to Wedi?

Also, would you say this is a lot faster than installing drywall and then covering with Kerdi in the traditional manner? It seems like it must be.

I've used lots of Wedi ... it's a great product. But this new Kerdi Board seems easier to work with, will work in steamrooms and saunas without extra prep and generally seems more diverse in application.
Check the last 3 or 4 photos where I built a box out of Kerdi Board to cover a vent. It took about 6 minutes to complete. Normally I'd have to build a wood frame and then attach my backer which would have taken over 1/2 an hour at least.

I used Kerdi Band in the shower when I probably could have just used the polyurethane caulking. I'm still not sure on a few things yet ... so I kind of over do it a bit to cover my butt.

One of the niches I made for the shower in the photos was too wide. So I added 2 pieces of 2" board bonded with Kerdi Fix and it was perfect in about 3 minutes.

I know it's going to be expensive, but the time I'll save will be a healthy offset.

Thanks, Harry. It will be interesting to see where Kerdi board comes in on the pricing spectrum.

Wedi is $30-35 a sheet here, so I bet Kerdi will be at least in that range.

Harry, how long do you have to wait before installing tile on Kerdi Board?

Hi Robert .... you can install tile right away with an un-modified thinset mortar.
(NO mastic - NO polymers)

I was correct in applying the Kerdi-Bond seaming tape to all the joints in the shower (wet area). Had I of completely read their instructions (the first time), I'd have been informed of that little detail.
So READ and watch their video when it's introduced to the market sometime in April of this year.

There seems to be a bit of chit-chat about my choice of drain systems for some of my shower pans while using the Kerdi membrane. Let me clear about one thing .... I'm a contractor, not a saleman. I use the system best suited for the work I'm doing and will answer to only one person .... my customer.

I ALWAYS use the Kerdi drain with the Kerdi membrane over wood substrates. There are circumstances when I'll choose to use a conventional drain when building over a basement in combination with the Kerdi membrane. Is it recommended by Schluter? Absolutely not. Is it the right way for my showerpan? It absolutely is.

My advice to anyone with little or no experience wanting to build a shower is to use the complete system as directed by whatever manufacturer they choose to deal with. If you need options, ideas or resolve for whatever problems fall in your way .... you might find the answer here .... and they might not always as recommended by the manufacturer.

Hi Harry, thank you for the info on Kerdi board. Letus know how it all turns out. I am interested in the longevity of the Kerdi board - being fairly 'new'

No problem Robert
If you've seen some of the showers I've built, I use a lot of Wedi board for my walls and ceilings and then the Kerdi membrane and drain for my showerpans. The issues I have with Wedi is that the product rep in my area isn't too concerned about who uses his product or how it's used. Also ... when using Wedi board for a steam room they say go with 1" thick Wedi board but then you still need to use epoxy mortar for the tiles (the rep was nice enough to inform me and my supplier about the epoxy mortar after the job was complete)

Now Kerdi Board takes care of that issue .... it resists vapor, is waterproof and temperaturs resistant.
I'm not sure yet if we still have to insulate walls in steam showers to reduce condensation or if we'd require a thicker board to do that job. But it seems that this board will accomplish more without additional applications of other various products.

For regular showers .... it works great. I just wish there was a way to get out of using Kerdi-Band on the seams in showers.

Could you just prep the joints with Kerdi Fix?
Oh wait, I think you need to take out a 2nd mortgage to buy Kerdi Fix.

Hehe..good one Randall

The price is definately going to be a factor.

If Kerdi Fix is polyurethane, why not just buy polyurethane caulking from the hardware store for $5 instead of $12 from Schluter?

Because, if you wish to have a Schluter warranty you need to use their system.

Fix sells for $26 a tube in my area and it's a special order to boot.

Bob, I used to think that the Kerdi Fix was the same thing as the polyurethane caulking at the lumber yard...apparently it isn't the same...I read a tech sheet about it and the Kerdi FIx is something different.

I wish I could remember what I read! It was a chemical name that only a lab geek would know.

$26 per tube?????!!!!

Yep, Canadian pricing.

Kerdi-fix alternative?

I found the following post on the John Bridge site ...

" Kerdi Fix is "Silyl-modified polymer" or SMP

According to the Schlueter Shower guide where it says:

Adhesive/Sealant
Any protrusions through the KERDI
membrane must be treated with Schluter®
-KERDI-BAND and Schluter®-KERDI-FIX, or
equivalent sealant, to ensure a fully
waterproof assembly.

Basic raw material Silyl-modified polymer (SMP)

So, a search in Google shopping turned up a Bostic marine product (10 oz) based upon Silyl Modified Polymer (SMP) Technology that looks similar on sale for $6.91.... Bostik Marine 940 FS

So, would it be wrong to use such a thing? How does one define "Equivalent" The posted properties of the sealants look pretty identical (at least shear strength, although the material is not specified...)"

What would be wrong with using another manufacturers product? Warranty issues?

Yeah, I would say Warranty would be the biggest issue. Plus, who knows what will happen to the foam core using some other brand. It may do something odd like melt it, or crystallize the edges or something else that may open up and leave a gap.

I have just stumbled onto the Kerdi board product and I am intrigued. I use the Kerdi membrane now, but would love to save the labor by using the board. Does anyone know of a supplier of that product in the SE U.S.?

It's supposed to be released in April, as soon as they get all the approval certifications.

Any dealer who sells Schluter products can order the material if they don't stock it.

Thanks! I have several dealers here that supply Schluter products, so I will alert them to let me know when the board is out.

Harry where did you buy ther Kerdi board? I tried Tile Master in Aurora and they still don't have it yet. Anyone know where and when it will be available in the Toronto area? Thanks. FYI Bostik 940FS is available on Amazon.com for about $120 for a case of 12 tubes.

I would look into the Bostik's 70-03A sealant, the similarities are pretty shocking !

Brenda,

Thank you for wasting our time with that link. Can you find something useful to do with your life?

Jaz, it's too bad people can't be more considerate.

Not to worry, spam gets dealt with in no uncertain terms.

Hi Harry, Hi all,


I've never been one to worry about manufacturers' warranties. I figure if I do what I'm supposed to do, the shower isn't going to leak. In that light, I wouldn't worry about trying any waterproof adhesive with Kerdi-board. In fact, I'm in the process of testing one of the Sika-flex products.

As Harry has indicated, the joints in wet areas have to be sealed with either Kerdi or Kerdi-band, and that's not going to change any time soon. So the "sealant" aspect of the various glues, including Kerdi-fix, can't be depended upon anyway. Use the Kerdi-band.

Outside the wet area, anything that will adhere to the fleece and to the exposed foam will hold Kerdi-board together. Thin set will join Kerdi-board both inside and outside the shower. The other adhesives are more tenacious, though.

I would be careful of using any type of adhesive and advice you to test your selected product overnight before straying from the suggested path.

Many construction adhesives will expand and I have witness adverse reactions to styro foam type products and standard construction adhesives. This might not be the case with Kerdi Board but until you have loaded it up and let it sit overnight you are playing with fire...

Test all your products = all the time. Every job.

I still have a 1/3 tube of Kerdi Fix that has do some light work in my past two showers. The $26.00 is small change in the big picture.

Harry, are you not worried about the box around the vent pipe considering it is only held up with some adhesive? With the weight of the tile I would worry that it might fall down one day

I highly doubt that box will fall down. That Kerdi Fix adhesive is some pretty strong stuff.

If you ever get to see some of the finished demo Kerdi Board shower mock ups with free span benches you'll see what I'm talking about. You can virtually stand on those benches the next day and it's only their caulking holding those slabs up.

My Kerdi Board Tee Shirt arrived today. Have any of you received yours yet.

Great quality shirt.

"What will you build first?" I know I'm going to work with some of that wavy board and those new sexy stainless channel pieces. The brochure that came with the tee shirts had some fantastic profiles to work with. Many designed to work with the different sized Kerdi Board panels but these stainless elements will look sharp in any setting and in custom installs.

Look forward to the shirts men.

Thanks Bob.

Does Kerdi wick water? Does Kerdi Board?

Who knows....

Kerdi does not wick water even an 1/8" the fleece acts to repel water from what I can see with a couple of make shift tests. Kerdi placed directly in water repels to the point of beading the surface of the water.

Does Kerdi Board wick water? Why are people recommending removing a strip of the fleece for a joining two pieces of Kerdi Board with Kerdi Fix. Why does this step need to be done? Surely Kerdi Fix should make a tight waterproof seal between sheets.

I would suspect the reason for this is that the Kerdi on the Kerdi Board is a different beast. Why would that be?

If this new Kerdi Board does wick water through the fleece even a little - I will keep my sheets for testing and out of my clients homes. I am hoping that tests I've seen online where preformed on some defective product because I truly want this new board to be perfect. And from what I'm reading and seeing this is not the case.

With a board so flexible in design - speedier installs and faster turn around times will be possible. This part of the board and the no noise install the parts I'm looking forward to most.

Less than 2 weeks until my stock arrives.

PS My price here in Vancouver for Kerdi Fix is $22.50 CDN plus taxes...


There are so many ways of building a "Bullet Proof" shower. Which way is best? I know what's best for me and my jobs and most of you know what's best for yours.

I can tell you from first hand experience that MUD JOBS and building paper can keep a home nice and dry for say 60 - 80 years. I have removed a few like this and am amazed at how dry the studs where. I could imagine a skilled Mud Man would bang out a shower prep in a day.

I think these new products and boards all have a place in every ones truck. These types of products developed to make the skill set less needed as every trade tries to go faster - do more - make more.

Master setters are disappearing - there are few to replace them. But a new breed of Masters is taken root with space aged product and design possibilities not even available just 15 years back. Topical waterproofing and pre slope bases the biggest improvements this past 10 years into mainstream renovations.

My thoughts.

I guess you have also herd about the alleged Kerdi Board wicking problem. Seems there may possibly be some defective board out there. I'm sure Schluter will figure out if there's actually any problem material. Apparently it's only the board that is made in North America.

As far as the Kerdi Fix goes, Schluter is telling installers to not rely on Kerdi Fix alone for wet area installations. You MUST apply Kerdi Band to all seams, fasteners and exposed foam edges if they are in a shower area.

There seems to be quite a difference in the face material of the board as compared to the regular Kerdi membrane. I have not tried the water test on any of the board yet. I have been testing the bond strengths using Kerdi Fix and thinset on edge to edge and edge to face material.

Hope you like the new product. Let us know what you think.

Just a follow up on some water testing with Kerdi board.

I soaked some raw board pcs in a bucket of water just to see what might happen. After an overnight soak I removed the pcs and noticed that there was significant wicking around the perimeter edges, anywhere from 3/4" to 2" When I looked at these pcs the following day the surface areas that showed signs of wicking were wrinkled and delaminating from the foam core.

I'm going to make a Kerdi Board box with all the proper seam coverings and fill it with water to see what happens, then I'll decide whether it's a product I would use.

From what I have seen so far it's not a real confidence builder to see a supposed impervious and expensive waterproof product for wet areas show signs of failure.

Before I started using Wedi I did the same test. Wedi showed no signs of failure from the soak test.
I have even seen pcs of DensShield scraps that have sat outside in the rain for a few days that didn't delaminate.

Good to know, RC. Keep us updated.

The core will wick Randall .... that's why we need to use a strip off Kerdi membrane over all the seams. (pain in the ass)I'm building a steam shower with the 1" kerdi board.
http://www.ontariotile.com/steam-shower-1.html

Theoretically that foam core should not wick any water, it's supposed to be a polystyrene foam. I think the wicking comes from the make up of the face layers when exposed to water.
I just wanted to see what would happen to an unprotected raw board. I'm sure it will be fine when all seams and fastener heads are covered with Kerdi Band.
I personally don't think that board should fall apart. Thats all I'm saying.

BTW, sweet shower!

I agree Randall. I have 1 sheet of the 1" board which has delaminated from the core on one side. I'm not happy with that.

Was that a pc that was exposed outdoors?

Hi Harry, Nice shower you're building! I'm concerned that there isn't enough plumbing in there!

I've heard some rumblings about problems with Kerdi board made here in the US, and that they are bringing in stock that was manufactured in Germany.

What is your opinion on the speed of the installation of the Kerdi board/kerdi band/kerdi fix/etc. versus installing drywall or cbu and then covering with Kerdi membrane in the traditional way?

I don't know Randall ... it was on the outside layer of a bundle, so it could have been. Shouldn't make a difference though because it's waterproof and vapor retardant.

Hi Rob, yep ... there's a lot of plumbing. There are 2 sets of 3/4" supply lines for 2 separate controls.
The speed of installation seems too redundant with applying the kerdi band to all the seams. I stopped using Kerdi for anything but showerpans over the last few years. I'll continue to use Kerdi board in my steam showers though. It seems like the best product for the job.

Harry, who's linear drain are you using and how expensive was it?

Randall, I haven't bought or seen in person a linear drain, but several guys have told me that there are linear drains on the market that are in the $400-500 range.

Harry, you've confirmed my suspicions--Kerdi board IS NOT as fast as they say it is.

Could it really be that the marketing people are stretching things a bit?

I'll get the name of the drain for you Randall. I think they bought if for around $300 .... not sure.

Rob, the Kerdi board is fast to install but it's the taping of the seams that adds the time on. Also, the 1/2" board seems a little too flexible between 16" center studs ... so I always upgrade to at least 3/4", or as in my steam showers, I'll use 1" thick boards.
If I had the guys Schluter use in their video working for me .... I'd be fast too.

Harry have you had to pop out any tiles after when using Kerdi Board?

Does the 3/4 Kerdi Board hold up to this type of re and re?

Where are you finding linear drains for that cheap. I have been installing line drains like crazy and the prices are $500 and up....

I had someone on Terry's site ask me for the old Scluter method of using a standard compression drain with Kerdi. Do you know any info on this procedure?

Thanks.

JW

Hi John
I didn't buy the linear drain, my customer did and I have no idea what they paid. She seemed to remember paying around $300 which I thought was cheap because it seemed good quality. I've used drains close to $700 and I usually get my customers to order direct so they can appreciate its cost.

I've installed the Kerdi membrane with the clamping drain over concrete in basements. I haven't used the system on upper levels of homes. With basement floors it allows me to proceed without demo to the area in the slab around the drain. Here's a link.
http://www.ontariotile.com/kerdi-drain.html

Using Kerdi-board on an outside wall of my shower do you still need to install a vapor barrier (6 mill poly) behind the the kerdi-board or is the kerdi-board enough

The Kerdi board will be enough. Just try to seal between the 2 products creating 1 envelope of barrier within the exterior wall.
I personally don't worry if the vapor barrier remains on the exterior wall when using a vapor proof backerboard. If it's there, fine .... if not the board does the trick.

Thanks for the info

Great info guys. Where can you purchase the Kerdi board and supplies in the Toronto area?