Ceramic tile installation tips - Renovations using Ceramic tile or Stone
Maximum Span Calculator for Joists
Maximum Span Calculator
Sponsored Links
Post Your Photos!
bamboo porcelain
travertine shower w/ glass mosaic inlay
final pics of marble shower and bath
Marble shower/bath
Heated floor in a steam shower
Search

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#15908 - 05/17/10 05:53 PM Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor
lsag Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 4
I am building an addition which will have big master bath. The addition will have hydronic heat and including in bath. Fred Seton who designed my system and reference this site advised me to install PEX tubes under the subfloor. I wonder if there will be enough heat to heat the floor since tubes will be too far away from the surface. I need to account for plywood subfloor plus 1/4" Durock plus mortar plus title. I thought the best solution is to embed PEX tubing into mortar or concrete layer and have tile over it. In this case entire concrete mass will be heated underneath the tile. I read some info on this site and it says the mortar or concrete layer in which PEX tubes are embedded should be more than 2" thick. Why is so thick? This will create a big step in my bath when transitioning from adjacent hardwood floors?

Can someone advise me on best way to put hydronic heat under tiled floor in new construction bath? Also I plan to use marble? Does it have any effect on hydronic heat and its performance?

Top
#15909 - 05/17/10 07:08 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: lsag]
J&D Tile Offline
Member

Registered: 03/15/10
Posts: 73
Loc: London, ON
No one is going to know your system better than the many who designed it. Ask Fred. If you don't believe him, or trust the contractor putting it in, then you've hired the wrong men.
_________________________
J&D Tile

Top
#15910 - 05/17/10 07:15 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: lsag]
RC Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 1750
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Welcome to the site Isag.
We are going to have to get some more detailed info on your floor structure first as you mentioned you are thinking about installing marble.
The deflection requirements for a stone floor are almost twice as much as those for a regular ceramic/porcelain tile floor.
Can you tell us what the joist material is, including the joist spacing and the size of the lumber and the span?

As for the radiant heating, whether it's under the subfloor or on top is not going to matter too much as far as heating the floor and room goes. I have done them both ways and they both work fine.
Obvious reason for under the the floor has to do with height.
For a top mounted hydronic system you need to decide what type of material your going to use to cover the pex tubing.
For a gypcrete or cement based pour the overall height is a min. 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" from the top of the subfloor.
Another product to consider is Schluter Bekotec which is a modular screed system that uses drypac mortar to embed the pex. Check out the web site. http://www.schluter.com/9_1_schluter_bekotec.aspx
It has a definite advantage in reducing the total dead weight and amount of mudbed material used. Drawback is the overall height with Ditra is almost 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" plus tile height.

Is there any particular reason why you want hydronic instead of an electric wire type system?
_________________________
Randall

Top
#15911 - 05/17/10 09:59 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: RC]
lsag Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: RC
Welcome to the site Isag.
We are going to have to get some more detailed info on your floor structure first as you mentioned you are thinking about installing marble.
The deflection requirements for a stone floor are almost twice as much as those for a regular ceramic/porcelain tile floor.
Can you tell us what the joist material is, including the joist spacing and the size of the lumber and the span?

As for the radiant heating, whether it's under the subfloor or on top is not going to matter too much as far as heating the floor and room goes. I have done them both ways and they both work fine.
Obvious reason for under the the floor has to do with height.
For a top mounted hydronic system you need to decide what type of material your going to use to cover the pex tubing.
For a gypcrete or cement based pour the overall height is a min. 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" from the top of the subfloor.
Another product to consider is Schluter Bekotec which is a modular screed system that uses drypac mortar to embed the pex. Check out the web site. http://www.schluter.com/9_1_schluter_bekotec.aspx
It has a definite advantage in reducing the total dead weight and amount of mudbed material used. Drawback is the overall height with Ditra is almost 1-3/4" to 1-7/8" plus tile height.

Is there any particular reason why you want hydronic instead of an electric wire type system?


The bath is standard from floor perspective. Joists are double or triple 2 X 8 dimensional lumber. Subfloor is ¾” plywood or OSB glued and nailed to joists.

It is very strange to me that there is no real difference between embedding PEX tubes into slab and stapling them underneath the plywood subfloor. Fred Seton said the same thing. If it is indeed the case I will staple PEX tubes under the subfloor and tile the bath standard way over Durock. Is marble OK for radiant heat?

I have two baths with electric radiant heat in my house. They are very comfortable but very expensive to operate. Since I putting radiant heat for entire house it would be silly not to use it to heat new bath.

Top
#15912 - 05/17/10 10:16 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: lsag]
RC Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 1750
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
The bath is standard from floor perspective. Joists are double or triple 2 X 8 dimensional lumber. Subfloor is ¾” plywood or OSB glued and nailed to joists.


But what do you actually have? What's the span of your joists?
Are you saying that the joists have already been sistered?

You keep asking about using marble, but it must first be established whether your floor structure will be sufficient to even install stone,irrespective of the floor heating.

We can't be of any help if you can not give details regarding the current floor system.
_________________________
Randall

Top
#15913 - 05/18/10 07:32 AM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: RC]
lsag Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: RC
Quote:
The bath is standard from floor perspective. Joists are double or triple 2 X 8 dimensional lumber. Subfloor is ¾” plywood or OSB glued and nailed to joists.


But what do you actually have? What's the span of your joists?
Are you saying that the joists have already been sistered?

You keep asking about using marble, but it must first be established whether your floor structure will be sufficient to even install stone,irrespective of the floor heating.

We can't be of any help if you can not give details regarding the current floor system.


I am happy to provide all info. Joist as I said are 2 X 8 lumber 16 O.C. Architect designed it assuming the bath will be fully tiled. The bath is around 17’ X 8’. There will be Jacuzzi, toilet, two sinks and I want to build custom steam shower. The bath is on second floor. The plan calls for tripled 2 X 8 joists under Jacuzzi.

I have existing bath adjacent to new one. It is smaller, 9’ X 5’, fully tiled sitting on similar floor structure, has bath tab and electric radiant heat.

Top
#15914 - 05/18/10 11:19 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: lsag]
RC Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 1750
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Seeing as how you are unable to give me any firm details on your floor system, I would suggest you ask your Architect if your floor is suitable for a marble installation.
_________________________
Randall

Top
#15915 - 05/19/10 09:02 AM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: RC]
lsag Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 4
I gave you all details. However, they are irrelevant to the original questions I asked. I didn't ask if my floor system can support marble.

I asked specific questions: what's the best way to put hydronic heat under tiled floor and if marble can be used in place of ceramic tile for hydronic heat. I would be very thankful if someone knowlegeable could answer THERE questions.

Top
#15916 - 05/19/10 05:40 PM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: lsag]
RC Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/21/03
Posts: 1750
Loc: Ontario, Canada
The reason I inquired about your floor structure was due to the marble installation statement. That's a RED FLAG and it's the first thing that needs to be clarified if you intend to install a stone floor successfully, irrespective of the hydronic heating.

And just to be clear, you have not supplied any info on joist spans and statements like " double or triple joists" or "OSB or plywood" flooring are vague.

If you told me your architect has looked after the structure, that would be one thing but you seem so bent on knowing whether you can install marble over heating that your missing the big picture.

I guess I'm not knowledgeable enough for you so good luck with your project.
_________________________
Randall

Top
#16693 - 02/11/11 03:05 AM Re: Hydronic Radiant Heat under tiled floor [Re: RC]
kamo Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/11/11
Posts: 2
Loc: TH
Thanks for the info.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


February
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29
Newest Members
seeooo13, abelabbey26, kuro, Deadeye, Murphy
3388 Registered Users
(Views)Popular Topics
Where do I begin... 51190
Kerdi Board 32991
Installing Nu Heat on Cement Slab 22855
Kerdi over Denshield 18660
Help with preslope!! 17344
Self-leveling compound on plywood 15630
slate tile on heated floor 14072
best liquid waterproofing? 13219
Ted's Shower 12269
tiling around shower drain in conrete basement 11393
Forum Stats
3388 Members
16 Forums
3472 Topics
17155 Posts

Max Online: 505 @ 02/07/12 09:26 PM
Who's Online
3 registered (pmacaula, seeooo13, 1 invisible), 255 Guests and 6 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RSS Feed
Subscribe to our RSS Feed

Home    Forum     Technical Info     Our Service     Photo Gallery     Installation    Contact Us    Privacy     Links    Books