Hello all. Just to introduce myself: My name is Matt. I am 26 and i am an engineer working in Orlando, FL. I recently bought a house that had a nice little leak in the tile shower...for 15 years, and i had to gut most of the bathroom. I am going to re-tile the shower the same size as it was before.

Here are some pictures of my job:

This is where it all started. I saw that mold and was like, well there goes 4 grand.



Everything was damaged.



Just about ready to start the fun stuff.




Here is the area of interest



Question here. As you can see in the picture, there is another type of material next to the concrete. What is that? It is softer than the concrete, or more brittle i guess. Should i remove it or just leave it?
[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_t3UBGqD3W1c/TDJGcfbAxCI/AAAAAAAABA4/9T5JGm2Zq7k/s640/DSC00360.JPG[/img]

Can't really tell from the photo what they may have used. Almost looks like Hardi board but I'm not sure.

I don't see any pan liner or preslope.

Is the bottom of the shower floor part of the original lower concrete slab pour?

Could you post a close up photo of the drain area?

Here is another shot of the "morter" or whatever they used. You can see some kind of mesh behind it. It does not look like hardibacker, its something that had been mixed.


You are correct, no pan liner or preslope. That is the concrete slab underneath.

Here are some close ups of the drain. This is the original drain. I am assuming that it just screws off? I didn't want to start busting up around the drain until i was sure that i could actually change the drain. The 3rd picture shows a hole in the floor near the drain (not sure if it is some kind of morter or it is the concrete).

Your right, mortar looks like some type of drypack mud mix. I have no idea why they would have done that.

Well,the drain is certainly not a clamp style drain assembly. I guess the theory was that any water that got past the tile would just soak into the cement slab and dissipate into the soil underneath.

My suggestion would be to remove the current drain assembly and replace it with a Schluter Kerdi drain and do a one shot sloped drypack mud shower pan. Next step would be to waterproof the entire shower with Schluter Kerdi or a liquid type waterproofing membrane, such as Laticrete Hydro Ban.

Other option is to replace the drain assembly with the traditional clamp style drain and do a preslope with liner and drypack mud shower pan.

First off, thanks for the help. Ok, you are kinda speaking German to me, i can't follow the lingo all that well.

But your "other" option is kinda what i had in mind.

Change the drain.
Make the mud bed.
Install the liner (6mil plastic).
Install the hardibacker.
make the final base with deck mud.
apply mortar and tile.

Sound right?

I just don't know what materials to use (i.e. deck mud and mud bed). Also, if followed this process, would i still use the hydro ban?

Everything was correct except for the 6 mil plastic for the liner. You'll need to use 40 mil for the liner. It's available at any of the big box stores or a tile supply store.

The plastic on the walls would be hanging over the liner on the floor.

A tutorial with pics is here: http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html
The only difference is that the subfloor in the tutorial is wood, so would skip the metal lath and roofing felt. Instead, the preslope is bonded to the slab with thinset.

One note: Personally, I'm not a big fan of Hardibacker in a shower. Hardi is very dry and will retain moisture much longer than a CBU like Durock or Wonderboard. Additionally, Hardibacker is slightly thinner than 1/2" (something like .042"), so it doesn't flush out with standar 1/2" drywall. This requires the installer to shim out the studs, or skim coat the joint between the Hardi and drywall to minimize the "bump". However, the choice of backer is up to you.

Just thought I'd mention, if you are looking for a structured shower pan liner to go with under your mortar bed and guarantee you a leak proof shower, you could look into a Dix Systems OneLiner. If comes with a stuctured shower pan liner either in stock sizes or can be custom made to any size and everything you need to get the correct slope necessary. It includes what is called a Pre-Pitch Kit (which are 6 sticks sloped from 1/8" to 7/8") to give you the correct slope under your liner and then the Quick Pitch Kit (which are 6 sticks sloped from 1" to 1 3/4" and a center ring which goes around your drain and the sticks clamp into it). This system lets you install your mortar bed super easy and when you're ready to install the tile on the floor you just twist up your drain to meet the tile height.
I've installed these types of liners for years and have always been happy!! Plus you can put your curb and drain where ever you want in the liner!!
Have a look if you're interested, www.dixsystems.com

Interesting product tilegirl...but...$600 for a 3x3 pan liner?

I like the peace of mind that comes with it. Plus it's super easy to install and saves me time. You can always mention you're a contractor and ask for a contractors discount =)Every little bit off helps!!

Ok i have been looking over the "tutorial" that you have on this site (http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html) and i have a couple of questions.

First, how do i remove my old drain. Does it screw off? Or can i just use the old one?

Second, to build the preslope he used a thing called "sand mix", what actually is this substance. I am unsure if you can buy it directly or if i have to add a couple of things together. Better yet, is there a premixed compound that i can buy and just add water or something?

Also, are there brands that are better than others for these kinds of mixtures?

Thanks for all your help.

You don't mention what kind of drain you have, but if you need to switch to a clamping drain you can remove the grate off the current drain and use an inside pipe cutter in your drill to cut the drain off.

An inside pipe cutter is basically a drill bit with a toothed wheel on the end. It can cut inside or outside the pipe.

The material to build the pre-slope is very similar to Quikrete Sand Topping Mix. If you want to make it a little easier to work with, throw a couple of shovels of sand in with a 60lb. bag of topping mix. You can add a little water at a time until it will hold together.

Well i have my drain in and i am ready to start with the mud bed. I have some 4-1 but it says to use a "slurry bond coat" on the bare concrete before i put down the 4-1.

What do i use for the slurry bond coat?
Should the mud be go on top of the slurry when it is still wet?

Thanks.

You can use a modified thinset mixed a little wetter than normal for the drypac bond coat. A 3/16 v notch trowel works well for the bond coat application.
Apply the drypac mud onto the bond coat while the thinset is wet.

Thanks, thats what i figured. And after the liner goes down do i have to put down a bond coat before i add more 4-1?

No, it goes straight down on the liner.

Hello...I am new here....I have a problem..The marble surface of my counter tops are badly scratched, worn, or needs major work...what can i do..Looking for solutions...

Please start your own thread on the topic Kate.

For minor wear and scratches I'd recommend Aqua mix stone enhancer and buffing, but it sounds like you have a more serious problem.

Marble is a relatively soft stone and takes sanding and polishing well. What needs to be done is sanding the counters with a progression of finer grits, starting at 50 and going to about 4000 grit. Then a sealer/enhancer and a final polish. This should be done profesionally and will involve taking your counter tops off and away to get worked on. Contact your local granite and marble shops. Unfortunately, you should expect a bill of a couple of thousand dollars or more.

Thanks for the reply...

Drain in, ready to start.

Bond Coat

Finished, I guess i should have cleaned the cement dust off my camera...



How long should this cure? It is Mapei 4/1.

Overnight should be fine.

Couple of things, Where's the pan liner,liner for the curb and whats Mapei 4/1?
I hope you didn't use thinset to make the shower pan.

I have heard that Floridians don't normally use pan liners over their slab floors. I'm guessing that's why I don't see one.

I am putting 12" x 12" marble tile (1/4" think) on top of a bathroom vanity and need to cut the circle out for the sink.

The center of the sink is where four corners of the tile meet.

I was considering attempting to use a rotozip, jigsaw, or router to cut out a sink hole in the tile? Does anybody have any suggestions if any of these methods will work? If so, what type blade is suggested?

I was thinking I should cut out the sink in the wood on top of the vanity and then lay the tile over the hole and then cut through the tile with one of the above methods. Having pre-cut the hole in the wood, I would be able to use it is a blade guide while cutting the tile.

Also, I am intending to use F26 glue rather than thinset to attach the tile to the plywood. I intend to butt the tiles up to one another with no grout space between. I plan to use a thin silicon layer between joints. Anybody have any thoughts on this? I want to come as close as possible to the appearance of a solid marble top, so I thought the F26 glue and the silicone in joints would provide a greater chance of a completely flat surface.

FYI: I have no extra pieces of marble tile to test with. I bought one box of tile which is exactly enough.

No extras, huh? Nothing like working under pressure.

With a sink cutout, I usually have the hole cut out in the plywood, then dry-lay each piece in place and trace the cut-out of the plywood onto the back of each tile. I then use a grinder with a 4" blade to make successively deeper cuts along that mark until I work my way through. With marble, you're going to have to be extremely careful that it doesn't crack. I've had them fall apart in my hands due to natural fissures and cracks. You might try laying them on an old folded up towel or tarp to cushion it.

I would strongly recommend you use an approved tile underlayment such as backer board, or if you can find it, Schluter Ditra. It's a little more costly, but you're not doing a lot of square footage there, and installing it is much easier.

I would very strongly recommend that you not use F26 and that you use a modified thinset made for setting marble. F26 cannot be combed and spread like thinset, and you'll end up with voids between the marble and the substrate. One day you'll lean on a corner of the tile and it'll snap like a twig. Thinset, properly used, will fully support the tile and prevent breakage.

You can use silicone if you wish, but I would use an unsanded grout and a 1/16" grout joint. You'll be lucky if you can get the tile butted together tightly and be able to keep them in a straight line.

Thanks....

Is it good to prefer marble for bathroom flooring!!

Hello everybody! Hope to hear from someone!

Hi kate 16
You should have started your own thread so that everyone can see the project your working on. As it stands now, it would only appear that your replying to the original posters thread. That's why there's no reply's.

My suggestion to you, is to start a new thread in the forums with a heading appropriate to your project.

Ok, i have all the stuff i need(hopefully) and some time to do it. Right now i have the drain in the 4-1 bed, the backer is on the walls and the seams are taped and sealed.

I have purchased some Redgard which i will use for sealant.

Do i use this on the floor and the walls?

After i use the sealant i should be ready for some modified thinset to set the tile on the floor and the walls right?

Thanks.

Is the plastic still on the walls? When I saw that in your earlier pics, I assumed that's what you were using for a moisture barrier. It should have draped over the liner near the floor, then any moisture would have been directed to the drain.

However, if you're using a surface-applied waterproofing like Redgard, it's not advisable to have plastic on the studs as it will retain moisture between the Redgard and plastic.

If you mentioned your intention to use Redgard in a previous post, I missed it.

There is plastic on the walls due to them being outside walls..well and the 1 interior wall has plastic also. Yes the plastic does drape over the liner at the bottom.

So you are saying that i shouldn't use the redgard and just go ahead with the mortar and tile? That would be great, save me $100.

Also, it is modified thinset on the walls and not mastic correct?

That's correct. What do you have for backer on the walls? Hardibacker is a very dry fiber cement board. If that's what you have, you'll want to dampen the board with a sponge immediately before applying thinset. If you don't, the thinset will dry too early and affect the bond.

You should use modified thinset on the walls and floor, never use mastic in a shower.

I have hardibacker. Well, i guess i am now ready to do the floor. I will post pictures when i get it done.

So i have the floor tile in, that was fun...

Do i grount the floor or set the walls next. I am using the same grout for both.

Up to you, your choice.

I have not gone back thru this thread to see what tile you may have used on the floor, but if it's small mosaics, I personally would grout the floor first.

At the very least, cover it with a tarp or paper to keep trash out of the grout lines.

It is natural stone mosaic, which was a lot more tedious then i thought it was going to be but whatever, everything should be easier from here on out.

I am going to grout the floor before i do the walls. Any quick tips?

Well i got it laid and grouted. Next step, hang the wall tile.
What do you think?

I like the natural look of that stone. Good job grouting. I probably would not have grouted the perimeter, though, just to be safe.

I skimmed through this thread again when I saw something in the above pics that caught my attention. This shower was done with a traditional liner, correct?

It looks like there is Hardibacker nailed to the top of the step. If I'm wrong, ignore this part. If I'm right, you may have a problem there that needs to be addressed.

traditional liner = yes
hardibacker = yes

If you have nailed through the step and therefore the liner, it's going to cause you problems.

Did you look at the pictures on this site so you would know how to install the liner properly?

http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html

Look at the picture of the liner after it's installed. The corners are cut, but have pre-formed corners glued in place.

oh, so my curb is the problem. Yes i read through that tutorial a number of times. The only difference is that i used backer for the curb instead of the mud. And yes, the screws for the backer go through the liner, only through the curb though.

Is this going to cause me big problems? Can this easily be fixed?

Each of those screws put a hole in the liner that is going to let water in. Eventually, the water will cause the wood to swell, causing the grout and/or tile to crack and the wood to rot.

Since you're pretty far along at this point, I would probably solve this problem by buying a gallon of liquid waterproofing. Coat the entire curb and up the door jambs with two or three coats.

Another question since I can't tell from your pictures: When you installed the Hardibacker on the walls, how low are the screws/nails in relation to the height of the curb?

Will do, probably some Redgard or something right?



The lowest screws are about right at the top of the curb. Would it be good practice to just use the waterproofing on all of the screw holes?

Yes, but not just on the screws.

Cover the floor with some paper and coat the step and about 6" up the wall all the way around. Do a minimum of 2 coats, but three would be better, especially on the curb.

If you haven't already, tape and mud the seams on the curb first.

Ok, sounds good. Just on the curb only or the curb plus all the way around the shower 6"?



Done.

Go all the way around the shower if you have enough Redgard. You want to cover any screws that are close to the floor. Except for the floor, the bottom foot or so of the wall sees the most water.

There's a dilution ratio for Redgard on the first coat that is particularly important for use over hardibacker. You'll get a much better bond and not waste as much liquid if you dilute it.