Hello all. Just to introduce myself: My name is Matt. I am 26 and i am an engineer working in Orlando, FL. I recently bought a house that had a nice little leak in the tile shower...for 15 years, and i had to gut most of the bathroom. I am going to re-tile the shower the same size as it was before.

Here are some pictures of my job:

This is where it all started. I saw that mold and was like, well there goes 4 grand.



Everything was damaged.



Just about ready to start the fun stuff.




Here is the area of interest



Question here. As you can see in the picture, there is another type of material next to the concrete. What is that? It is softer than the concrete, or more brittle i guess. Should i remove it or just leave it?
[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/_t3UBGqD3W1c/TDJGcfbAxCI/AAAAAAAABA4/9T5JGm2Zq7k/s640/DSC00360.JPG[/img]

Can't really tell from the photo what they may have used. Almost looks like Hardi board but I'm not sure.

I don't see any pan liner or preslope.

Is the bottom of the shower floor part of the original lower concrete slab pour?

Could you post a close up photo of the drain area?

Here is another shot of the "morter" or whatever they used. You can see some kind of mesh behind it. It does not look like hardibacker, its something that had been mixed.


You are correct, no pan liner or preslope. That is the concrete slab underneath.

Here are some close ups of the drain. This is the original drain. I am assuming that it just screws off? I didn't want to start busting up around the drain until i was sure that i could actually change the drain. The 3rd picture shows a hole in the floor near the drain (not sure if it is some kind of morter or it is the concrete).

Your right, mortar looks like some type of drypack mud mix. I have no idea why they would have done that.

Well,the drain is certainly not a clamp style drain assembly. I guess the theory was that any water that got past the tile would just soak into the cement slab and dissipate into the soil underneath.

My suggestion would be to remove the current drain assembly and replace it with a Schluter Kerdi drain and do a one shot sloped drypack mud shower pan. Next step would be to waterproof the entire shower with Schluter Kerdi or a liquid type waterproofing membrane, such as Laticrete Hydro Ban.

Other option is to replace the drain assembly with the traditional clamp style drain and do a preslope with liner and drypack mud shower pan.

First off, thanks for the help. Ok, you are kinda speaking German to me, i can't follow the lingo all that well.

But your "other" option is kinda what i had in mind.

Change the drain.
Make the mud bed.
Install the liner (6mil plastic).
Install the hardibacker.
make the final base with deck mud.
apply mortar and tile.

Sound right?

I just don't know what materials to use (i.e. deck mud and mud bed). Also, if followed this process, would i still use the hydro ban?

Everything was correct except for the 6 mil plastic for the liner. You'll need to use 40 mil for the liner. It's available at any of the big box stores or a tile supply store.

The plastic on the walls would be hanging over the liner on the floor.

A tutorial with pics is here: http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html
The only difference is that the subfloor in the tutorial is wood, so would skip the metal lath and roofing felt. Instead, the preslope is bonded to the slab with thinset.

One note: Personally, I'm not a big fan of Hardibacker in a shower. Hardi is very dry and will retain moisture much longer than a CBU like Durock or Wonderboard. Additionally, Hardibacker is slightly thinner than 1/2" (something like .042"), so it doesn't flush out with standar 1/2" drywall. This requires the installer to shim out the studs, or skim coat the joint between the Hardi and drywall to minimize the "bump". However, the choice of backer is up to you.

Just thought I'd mention, if you are looking for a structured shower pan liner to go with under your mortar bed and guarantee you a leak proof shower, you could look into a Dix Systems OneLiner. If comes with a stuctured shower pan liner either in stock sizes or can be custom made to any size and everything you need to get the correct slope necessary. It includes what is called a Pre-Pitch Kit (which are 6 sticks sloped from 1/8" to 7/8") to give you the correct slope under your liner and then the Quick Pitch Kit (which are 6 sticks sloped from 1" to 1 3/4" and a center ring which goes around your drain and the sticks clamp into it). This system lets you install your mortar bed super easy and when you're ready to install the tile on the floor you just twist up your drain to meet the tile height.
I've installed these types of liners for years and have always been happy!! Plus you can put your curb and drain where ever you want in the liner!!
Have a look if you're interested, www.dixsystems.com

Interesting product tilegirl...but...$600 for a 3x3 pan liner?

I like the peace of mind that comes with it. Plus it's super easy to install and saves me time. You can always mention you're a contractor and ask for a contractors discount =)Every little bit off helps!!

Ok i have been looking over the "tutorial" that you have on this site (http://www.ontariotile.com/preslope.html) and i have a couple of questions.

First, how do i remove my old drain. Does it screw off? Or can i just use the old one?

Second, to build the preslope he used a thing called "sand mix", what actually is this substance. I am unsure if you can buy it directly or if i have to add a couple of things together. Better yet, is there a premixed compound that i can buy and just add water or something?

Also, are there brands that are better than others for these kinds of mixtures?

Thanks for all your help.