so if you are teaching yourself you don't think there will be any errors regardless of technique. I think the only way anyone can learn is through trial and error. I didn't say that the errors would not get fixed if they are done wrong I just said in my learning process without a teacher i have done stuff wrong the first time.

noha i'm not questioning your character, or integrity, or passion for the trade. It isn't about you personally. I'm saying that if you lack the technical knowledge, you should consider working with an experienced tile setter to get you up to speed. You said there were a lot of training resources where you live. Continuing education is on all of us.

i wish there were some around here. but even if i find someone whos qualified they are not willing to share the knowledge for fear of loosing work, which is understandable, but doesn't help me any. this sight has been alot of help but there is only so much you can learn from pictures and words, Its just a hard trade to learn, but i do enjoy doing it. Around the nashville area its growing so fast that noone wants quality they want speed, so when these other guys do crappy work it makes the rest of us that care look bad. I have actually thought about leaving the trade all together because the contractors don't won't to pay someone good to do good work they won't speed and crap. then they call me to come and fix it

That's very much like the situation here. I think a lot of that comes down to two things; lack of education on the part of the consumer, and lack of oversight for the specs of our trade. Hence my initial post. As far as other craftsmen being afraid to teach the trade, that's unfortunate. Makes me think someone like that is probably not very secure in the experience they do have. Information sharing serves the whole trade better. I do wish you future success in the trade, you seem genuinely interested. hope to talk to you more in the future.

Although,yes,it's better to start your career by going to trade schools or working as an apprentice under a journeyman in this trade,I bet that most of us learned and are still learning by way of "trial and error".

The standards that are set around here (Toronto area,anyway)for tile work and shower construction are so not right that the only way for a good contractor to learn to do it by the book is to self educate.

For the last few decades,the standards have been "scratchcoat over single layer subfloor,tile mastic in wet areas,PVC pan liner layed flat and used without any regard for the weep holes in the drain assembly...I can go on... :p .I surely didn't want to learn from the veterans that employed these methods.

And then with all the new products that have become popular...20x20 tiles,rectified tiles,stone tiles,epoxy grouts,membranes,electric radiant heat,etc...the savvy contractor's only means of knowing how to successfully perform the labour necessary to complete a job with these products is to read and learn by doing.

Definition of wisdom (in construction especially): Learn by doing.

http://www.ctasc.com/images/TileWise%20C...allqualityF.jpg

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Ron that's why i stopped working in Toronto for about a year now. I've gone WEST.
You find WAY too many hacks in Toronto. Guys showing up at a job site with brand new tools, charging next to nothing for a job, etc.
And the biggest problem amongst the tile trade in TO is CUSTOMERS. They just don't want to pay for a PROPER JOB.
I must've lost tens of thousands of dollars by simply refusing to install tiles on greenboard shower areas. But that all comes with the trade.
That's Not to say, when the pocket pinches every so often or the road ahead seems to decline (December/January) i don't do them, but I STRONGLY recommend all my customers to do it right......ONCE!